Time-Based Currency [video] | Hacker News Reader

Time-Based Currency [video]

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32 pointsjonbaer17 comments

Regarding alternative forms of currencies, have a look at this one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demurrage_(currency)

This approach tries to avoid hoarding of money by decreasing the value of hoarded money. The concept is part of the idea called "Freiwirtschaft" (German, literally translated Free economy): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freiwirtschaft

Built-in demurrage has been tried with Freicoin, which has been around [0] since 2013:

http://freico.in

https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/freicoin/markets/

[0] For the loosest definition of "been around" -- I assume its blockchain still exists somewhere, but their own website links to an explorer that apparently doesn't exist. And their Github repo hasn't been updated for ~18 months: https://github.com/freicoin/freicoin/commits/master

Perhaps people were not spending it, so over time, its value dropped all the way to zero? :)

I'm experimenting with a new type of currency: an inflating supply crypto. The supply inflation is 7% per year. When new money is issued, everyone has equal access to purchase the coins. Inflation also discourages hoarding behaviors that we see in a system like Bitcoin.

The long-term goal is to be a medium of exchange.

https://bitflate.org/

This is already a well worn mistake. Inflation is good for the entity that controls a currency. Why would someone want to convert their money into a currency that is meant to inflate?

In the long-term, you don't want to hold this coin. It's meant to be a Medium of Exchange. Its value decreases over time. But in the short-term, you can speculate on its adoption.

With Bitcoin, people speculate on a Store of Value. With Bitflate, people speculate on a Medium of Exchange.

There's a field of currency trading. Having inflation does not mean a currency is worthless. The market can incorrectly price a currency.

Why would people put their money in a crippled medium of exchange like bitcoin or somewhere that their money is guaranteed to inflate away when neither is necessary?

It isn't even a difficult problem to make a crytocurrency that doesn't inflate endlessly and doesn't have artificial constraints on its throughput. It makes no sense to make a currency with these defects. (Also no one said inflation makes a currency worthless).

Thanks for the reply. It's kinda hard to reason these economic systems from a personal perspective. It's probably easier to understand them when the system is supported by a group of individuals (collective view).

Bitcoin is an extreme example of protecting your own money. Other people who don't buy in are losers (from Bitcoin's holders perspective). People are self-fish. Bitcoin works on this self-fish mechanism. When you first look at Bitcoin, it's a ridiculous idea. But when enough people buy into the idea, it can start to work as a Store of Value.

With inflation, there's a similar mechanism. Why should you hold a currency that devalues over time? Because when enough people use it, they will accept the currency as a Medium of Exchange. For example, the USD. Everyone knows that it inflates. But nobody really cares. It's a fairly good medium of exchange. I can use it to buy stuff.

Then why should you hold a crypto that inflates? Because it's decentralized. The rule is set and fair for everyone. I don't think it would completely replace fiat either. But it would be a good option to have.

Bitcoin is a Store of Value because of deflationary supply.

Bitflate is a Medium of Exchange because of inflationary supply.

Each coin will not work by themselves. But together, they can make a monetary system. We need two coins that work in opposite directions. I call this monetary dualism.

You have a lot of misconceptions going on here.

First, bitcoin is not a good store of value, that was just a propaganda line that was fed to people when it was obvious the transaction throughout was being artificially constrained. Crypto currency is much too new and volatile (not just price, but ecosystem and laws) to make a claim like that.

Second, there is going to be no medium of exchange as no one is going to buy into something that has inflating your money away at 7% as its selling point. That's nonsense.

Also people absolutely care that the US dollar inflates, but there are deflationary forces as well, so how much isn't always clear. In any event, people use USD because they have essentially no choice, and anyone who understands inflation doesn't keep their savings as USD. People don't use the currency of their country because they chose it, they use it because they have to to survive.

With crypto currency people have a choice, and no one is going to choose 7% inflation. There is no connection between inflation of a currency and how well it works as a medium of exchange. I think you are getting confused with inflation increasing the velocity of an economy, which only happens with respect to people without savings spending on essentials.

We need to go back and discuss whether Bitcoin is a viable form of money. :) That's a long discussion. There's plenty of material on the web. I do think Bitcoin is a viable form of money. It's not complete. I don't think it can replace fiat. But it's a good option for people to store their money.

Short-term, Bitcoin is a Speculative Asset. Long-term, Bitcoin is a Store of Value.

These two concepts are contradictory. But I think in this case, they are valid. Money is contradictory. It does not really make sense when you reason it from a single point of view.

Although Bitflate has unlimited supply in the long-term, it's still limited by the 7% inflation rate in the short-term. I work out the reward schedule below:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tdRWdqc0I9uMASXp-zY8...

If we take the fiat base and inflate 7%, that is a lot. But with a new crypto, we start from 0. It'll take:

- 10 years to mine 30 million coins

- 28 years to mine 100 million coins

- 100 years to mine 14 billion coins

Many people tell me they rather use fiat with unknown inflation than a crypto with a fixed inflation rate. I think that's absurd.

Viable form of money is not what is being talked about. Crypto currencies can have strong properties of ideal money. My comment said store of value which isn't the same thing.

> Long-term, Bitcoin is a Store of Value.

Repeating an assertion doesn't make it true. People could use bitcoin as that but saying it is true is a prediction of the future which no one truly knows and history does not support.

The big picture is that no one is going to put their money into a crypto currency whose 'big idea' is inflation. It makes zero sense. Sorry if I'm the first one to actually tell you this.

dogecoin beat you to it

dogecoin has a constant tail emission. It'll eventually shrink relative to the circulating supply. I'm doing a coin with a constant 7% inflation rate.

How is this different from Federal reserve notes, aside from blockchain? Hoarding is a good thing. If I have a currency and someone hoards, my currency goes up in value based on supply and demand. Hoarding also benefits anyone who wants to make a capital investment. You have to hoard first before you can purchase something. Why would I want to have something that is guaranteed to be worth less at a later date? The only reason I hold FED notes is because the government forces me to do so.

The difference is the supply inflates exactly at 7% per year. Nobody can change its issuance rate. It's a fair game for everyone. I design a reward schedule that benefits early adopters:

0: 50

1: 25

2: 12.5

3: 6.25 (end of halving)

4: 6.56 (start of inflation 7%)

5: 7.02

6: 7.51

7: 8.04

8: 8.60

9: 9.20

10: 9.85

While the supply is unlimited in the long-term, it is limited in the short-term by the inflation rate. The reason you want to hold it is speculation. With Bitcoin, people speculate on a Store of Value. With Bitflate, people speculate on a Medium of Exchange. There's a field of trading for currency. The market can adopt the coin faster or slower than the issuance rate. I wrote a post on the incentives:

https://bitflate.org/post/2019/11/01/economic-incentives-for...

Neat. I made a cryptocurrency which monetizes time. Longer you lock up, higher % of inflation you receive. Lightly similar to a time deposit at a bank. I'm quite surprised no one did it before. It's virtual lending, in that value is accrued by those unlocked, by the reduction in circulating supply by those locked.

Grin appears to be the only cryptocurrency with a constant reward: 1 Grin per second forever.

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