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Comment by axegon_ | Hacker News Reader

This is pretty awesome. But even though as a cyclist myself, I am a bit uncertain about bicycle lanes in Europe as a whole(maybe except Greece, Italy, Spain, Malta, Portugal and so on, where the weather allows it). Let's take my situation for instance, given that Greece is just 250-300 km south from me: During the period between October and April cycling is pretty much impossible unless you have a death wish - starting with heavy rain, followed by a meter of snow and ice. That's 6 months out of the year during which those lanes and paths are practically unusable. Sure, there are a few enthusiasts that will carry on even in those conditions(and I know one or two of those) but in any case, for 98% of cyclist, this is unthinkable(myself included). So in those 6 months, that whole are is simply unusable, while traffic jams expand beyond reason.

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In Denmark, the cycle lanes are swept clear of snow before the driving lanes.

There's slightly higher car and public transport use in the winter, but most people don't stop cycling.

> as a cyclist myself,

Also, people here don't identify themselves like that. Just like people don't say "I'm a driver" unless it's their job to drive a bus, taxi or truck.

I cycle to work, but it's not part of my identity.

OK those are just semantics. I generally walk to work(it's ~4km largely through green areas so a nice walk in the morning and evening). Somehow the idea of carrying a backpack with an extra pair of clothes and having to shower at work isn't very appealing to me. Semantically I mean "cyclist" as in I'll go for a joyride in the evenings and 5-6 hours during weekends. When it's nice and dry that is, rain and water probably bugs me more than you I suspect... And a lot of people around here by the looks of it.

Why would you need a shower and different clothes for a short bicycle ride?

(disclaimer: am Dutch)

I can't explain it really, I just have to. It's like trying to keep your eyes open when you are sneezing. I just have to.

Finn here with a 3–7.5 km commute depending on which office I go to: hills. I was in Amsterdam last summer and rode about 60 km one day with a shitty rental bike and it was a breeze because there was only a couple of inclines that I remember. Here it's constant up and down and I would surely need to shower at work. Personally I have solved that with a pedelec, which takes the effort out of the hills.

On these kinds of discussions, claims about the need to shower at work after cycling usually come from Americans (especially in their southern regions), so it is rather surprising to hear it from a Finn. I feel like Finns pay more attention to appropriate clothing for the season and activity, so they would choose something to cycle in that is breathable and won’t leave them soaked in sweat, and they would be willing to invest in e.g. a merino-wool base layer – merino wool doesn’t stink even if one’s sweats in it.

Granted, I am chiefly getting this impression from what was sold in the sports sections of clothing shops in downtown Helsinki when I was a student there, and perhaps most of the native Finnish population finds that clothing just as unaffordable as I did as a poor foreigner.

If it's 25C out, it really doesn't matter what you wear - if you exert yourself outside, you're going to get sweaty. The American south is quite warm. Wearing wool is ridiculous.

It is not often 25C in Finland at commuting hours. And even when it is, a merino-wool microweight base layer can easily be worn up to 30C and still keep you cool and dry. That is why Smartwool etc. are so popular in the bicycle-touring world.

The problem with the American South is not just heat but humidity, but again, the challenges that they and people in similar climatic regions face are not universal.

Well, you just said. The netherlands has a pretty even geography.

In many places, just cyclying for 5 km can get you out of your breath and sweating. I can think of many of such scenarios in the south of Spain.

Some people sweat a lot, and there's nothing they can do about it.

My commute has been a short bicycle ride to work for most of the previous decade, and I still sweat to the point where I feel uncomfortable if I don't shower afterwards.

> carrying a backpack

Why would you need to carry a backpack? A bike can carry panniers on a back rack.

I think in this case it's worth mentioning, because not everyone cycles. You'd probably value the perspective of someone who cycles versus someone who doesn't, right?

And one important aspect of being a "cyclist" is to regularly drive some distances, like > 10miles. The biggest problem with bike paths is, that they are often decided by people, who mainly drive cars and only very occasionally, without much training and experience take some short joy rides of bikes and think this qualifies them as cyclists.

You don't have to be sporty at all, but once you cycle at least once per week > 10 miles, your perception of bike paths changes quite considerably.

I think that's the difference between "identifying as a cyclist" (cycles >10 miles for enjoyment) and "cycles to work, but it's not part of their identity". It's the latter you should optimise for to efficiently make use of public roads and reduce pollution - although the former will benefit too.

The main reason bike paths in the Netherlands are so great is because they work well for untrained people, using it as a means of transport.

I'm not sure where you are that gets a meter of snow and ice. Bike lanes are perfectly usable up here around the UK, Belgium, Holland and France all of the year, just a few puddles to dodge in winter.

The majority of risky cycling here comes riding during rush hour in heavy traffic. Cycle lanes are a great investment IMHO.

Paris has more of a sea climate than “250-300 km north of Greece”, giving it more moderate winters. http://www.discoverfrance.net/France/Paris/Paris_climate.sht...:

”snowfall is somewhat of a rarity in Paris. Although there is at least a dusting of snow about 15 days a year, most accumulation generally disappears within 24 hours. The highest snowfall ever recorded in one day was 40 cm (15.75 in) on 2 March 1946“

Also, if there’s a meter of snow and ice on the bike lanes, there’s a meter of snow and ice on the car lanes, too.

Are those unusable in winter, too? Probably not, as they get cleared. That can be done with bike lanes, too (https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/tag/snow/)

Cycling is very heavily used in Oulu, Finland, despite what amounts to several months of Winter: https://wintercyclingblog.wordpress.com/2014/10/17/oulu-finl...

A meter of snow and ice wouldn't be good for cars either but we manage to keep the roads functional in winter. In all of central Europe, except perhaps high in the mountains, winters are manageable more or less comfortably if the bike paths are cleared.

You got it all wrong. You can wear a rain poncho when it rains. But you can't carry an A/C to cycle through the Greek summer (33C+).

Plus, rainy weather can be predicted pretty accurately with some investment. NL/BE have realtime notifications for incoming rainfall. And at least in NL the weather is extremely volatile (no mountains). Countries with more stable weather can surely do the same.

May I invite everyone with weather that has occasional showers to search for 'rain radar' and their region. If the rain patches are wind driven, you can easily predict the time and length of a break and stay dry as long as you're a little flexible.

In (arguably) worse conditions, Finland, they just convert the bike/pedestrian lanes to snow scooter lanes elevated on two meters of snow.

I live in Alaska in the winter, and biking is incredibly popular during that time. Appropriate equipment (studs, wide tires, pogies), and clothing is needed, and the city needs to properly plow, but it can work.

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