He once seemed to be the savoir of humanity but these days he just seems like the typical angry CEO looking to manipulate things to his advantage.
Moving out of a state that won't let you run your business seems like a very savvy move for a person whose job is running a business and growing it as quickly as possible (which he would say is in order to accelerate the shift to a sustainable energy future, which you can agree with or not)
I'm genuinely confused by the animosity
Airlines and Ford (pinnacles of responsible business operations /s) getting bailed out by the Fed through junk bond liquidity operations? Why not Tesla too?
Arguably, we still want those billionaires to succeed, but we also want taxes paid and workers protected across the board. I don’t think that’s unreasonable, but complex problems and their solutions are hard to discuss at scale because of entrenched interests, sound bites, the twenty four hour news cycle, and people acting in bad faith.
We want taxes paid and workers protected, so we want tax-evading and union-busting billionaires to succeed.
Taxes and worker welfare are two tools we can deploy towards that goal. A company is a voluntary organizational tool, and when run as well as Tesla is, an extremely effective one at accomplishing a goal.
States don’t control the currency, nor have the budgets to backstop large cap firms in economic distress.
How about "...for CEOs to threaten moving their economic operations to places where governments are more hospitable". Still dangerous and toxic?
If the CEO of some 100 person company tweets out "screw you guys I'm moving to Texas", I think that's fine. Even if the state makes changes in response, nobody's going to think that his money alone was the deciding factor.
In this case, him being rich is irrelevant, as he’s not threatening to use his personal wealth.
To me, it's because this stinks in the same way as Bezos playing cities off each other to extract concessions. He's even asking fans and shareholders to sue the county[1] and reach out to politicians[2]. A county has made a decision, presumably in good faith, in the interest of public health. You don't have to agree with their decision, but throwing your weight around as a billionaire to spite them for it is a bad look.
1: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1259165058426232832
2: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1259174414865719296
Edit: fixed reference link (thanks mft_).
This can be debated, right? I'm not sure what's the problem with the management of a company saying they're moving a headquarter because they believe they can better operate elsewhere, or asking other people who feel negatively impacted to consider a legal actions (unless you don't trust the legal system, but that's another matter I guess).
Personally, I don't want to live in a country where unelected officials can unilaterally make decisions that shut down the economy and kill my business and life's work. I'd certainly have a lot to say about it
Same, but I also wouldn't want to live in a county whose officials are afraid to make decisions that are in the best interest of the people's health out of fear of the wrath of a billionaire and his followers.
If he wants to move the plant I have no problem with that, it's the way he's trying to use his position for outsized political pressure that I dislike.
As someone who genuinely appreciates what Elon is striving for and wants all of his projects to succeed, I hope he’ll succeed in building a new project soon in addition to keeping the California factory for reopening later on.
On the other hand I think society should have some safeguards and safety nets in place for once per century events such as a pandemic that shutters the economy. Surely if we had kept a preparation in place since 1918 we would have a much easier time weathering this storm. But instead society forgot all about these things. It wouldn’t have been easy of course given the shortsighted nature of politics.
Um, the tweet you referenced reads "Please voice your disagreement as strongly as possible with @AlamedaCounty".
Isn't this just asking people to, you know, contact their local politicians and voice their opinion? Like, how individual citizens with an opinion can do? There's nothing about suing anyone?
Shareholder: [...] can shareholders file a class action lawsuit? [...]
Elon: Absolutely, please do! You should be allowed to recoup damages from the county.
I guess it's a matter of semantics. If you ask if I want a coffee and I say "yes please", did I ask for coffee? I would say the answer is "yes", but I could understand a hyperliteral argument for "no".
Like calling an innocent person a pedophile?
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/06/unsworth-vs-musk-pedo-guy-de...
The said quote was given to CNN, not something that was said in private.
> He once seemed to be the savoir of humanity but these days he just seems like the typical angry CEO looking to manipulate things to his advantage.
> I can't help but wonder if Musk has had some medical event that is imparing his cognition.
How condescending is this? Is he acting like an angry little man, selfishly concerned for his bottom line and little else? Is he behaving like the stereotypical, upper-class born, billionaire CEO which he is? No, he must be having some kind of medical condition!
Have you considered that maybe, just maybe, he is just... your average billionaire CEO? Father owned an emerald mine, had a "lavish lifestyle" growing up (his words), had enough capital to invest in companies and strike it gold. A mixture of luck and merit.
Maybe, just maybe, he is not Our lord God-Emperor Elon.
[1] https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-sleep-deprivation-...
Or maybe it’s just for the lolz + fat stacks of mad cheddar.
> false claims about constitutional guarantees of limitless freedom
I don't know that i saw that tweet. Was this referring to first amendment freedom of assembly?
Have you seen his girlfriend? Given her aesthetics and creative output, you should be glad the name can even be expressed in unicode. Musk probably moderated it, if anything.
> tweets manipulating stock prices
The stock price which is now... close to 2x the exaggerated $420 claim? Yeah, maybe he knew something you didn't.
> claims of forsaking possessions
This is for a good reason -- he needs cash to exercise the TSLA options he was just granted. He's stock-rich but cash-poor. The choices are either take on massive debt to exercise them, or free up cash ASAP. This is fine.
> false claims about constitutional guarantees of limitless freedom
Yeah... gonna need a cite here.
> to the flagrant disregard for the health and safety of his employees
He has different risk/reward beliefs than you. If he was working from home while his employees sweated unsafely on the factory line, that's one thing -- but he's also been in the office working beside them the whole time. He cares about what he's trying to do, and his risk/reward function is "fuck it". Did any of his employees honestly expect any less, when they joined?
> He once seemed to be the savoir of humanity
He's doing the same thing he's always done. His belief is that stopping global warming and getting humans off of earth take 100% precedence over anything else. Including, a 0-1% risk of death from disease. The same reason he's pushing to put astronauts in space -- the future is worth taking risks for.
If believed in Musk in the good times, you should have understood that he'd hold the same principles in the bad times. It's the rest of the world that blinked, not Elon.
That.. doesn't mean it wasn't stock manipulation. Its not really about the stock price, its about whether he caused people to buy or sell based on false claims or information.
> He has different risk/reward beliefs than you. If he was working from home while his employees sweated unsafely on the factory line, that's one thing -- but he's also been in the office working beside them the whole time. He cares about what he's trying to do, and his risk/reward function is "fuck it".
That doesn't make it ok, nor does it mean his employees don't feel pressured to go against their own risk/reward beliefs. There have been plenty of stories of Musk flippantly firing people for not "working hard enough". You might say well people who work there have other options and could choose to work elsewhere, but is it really a real choice if the person otherwise believes strongly in the mission, or is blinded by Musk's personal brand, or otherwise loves their job, or is worried about the economy due to pandemic. There are plenty of reasons why someone might feel pressured to work even if they do not feel its safe. The risk/reward function for a billionaire is not the same as for the average person working for him. Just because he thinks "fuck it" doesn't make it ok to put his employees at risk.
Musk's contribution to the name of his kid is "A-12", Though apparently neither parent can actually say this poor kid's name.
> Yeah, maybe he knew something you didn't
You understand that this type of stock manipulation is illegal right? As a result of prior tweets, Musk is now required (by the SEC and with agreement by Musk and his legal team in April) to have Tesla pre-approve his tweets related to it. Yet despite this, he continues to tweet his opinions about the stock price. Opinions clearly designed to and that have manipulated the price of the stock.
> he needs cash to exercise the TSLA options
Musk actually stated that he is selling his possessions and explicitly clarified that he does not need cash but because "possessions just weigh you down". Though to be fair, when pressed by the courts to potentially pay for something his response is typically that he is broke. I would love to tell my kid's college that we are "broke" as well because our stock portfolio and investments should not be considered liquid assets.
> Yeah... gonna need a cite here.
Musk has repeatedly referred to "shelter in place" requests/orders as fascist forcible imprisonment, further stating that these orders are unconstitutional.
Here is a direct quote:
"... the shelter-in-place, and frankly I would call it forcibly imprisoning people in their homes against all their constitutional rights..."
Has anyone actually been arrested in the USA for leaving their home? Not that I am aware of. These orders/requests are certainly not any kind of "forced imprisonment"!
Constitutionally, like most amendments, rights granted by the first are not limitless. Every person should reasonably understand that. If you believe (as Musk apparently does) that the Constitution grants liberties without limits, please check case law.
Further, the federal government has delegated the authority to quarantine explicitly to the states indicating that there is clearly no constitutional guarantee of "freedom from quarantine". A state by state summary can be found here: https://www.ncsl.org/research/health/state-quarantine-and-is...
When you talk about Musk having different risk/reward beliefs that is clear. The safety record at Tesla generally compares poorly with other manufacturers. Nissan and Toyota plants cited in a Forbes article in March 2019 combined for 9 safety violations while the Tesla plant had 54. His demands that works continue despite orders from the government to cease out of public health concerns shows that his priority is money not Americans. Abuse is abuse and never excusable under the premise that employees should have known what they were signing up for. It does not matter if Musk is passionate about the results. CEOs tend to be passionate about the results, particularly when they like to tweet about them.
I did not even bother to mention "The pedo guy fiasco", his "C-PAP respirator" solution, or his live interview while smoking weed.
These are the behaviors of a 70s era rock star, not those of the CEO of a multi-billion dollar manufacturing empire. I personally believe Musk has been acting increasingly erratic for months.
I don't know what is going on, but I think he should take a break from Twitter.
In hindsight pretty impressive he ever pulled the wool over anyone’s eyes.
That said I wouldn't rule out a medical event :)
Also, if you piss off The Powers That Be enough, it doesn't end well for you.