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Comment by tinus_hn | Hacker News Reader

That kind of triangulation is nowhere near precise enough to reveal the data shown in the article. This is GPS data which the provider does not get.

Remember that many people ‘have nothing to hide’ so they turn on services like Google Latitude. Then later they’re al surprised when their data is sold to the highest bidder.

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>>> That kind of triangulation is nowhere near precise enough to reveal the data shown in the article.

Here, have a read at this article on how cell phone operate and how to track them. Wrote that a few years ago.

https://thehftguy.com/2017/07/19/what-does-it-really-take-to...

And the HN discussion, where developers admit they've been developing that for real for years: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14803443

Your link describes accuracy in an imaginary, optimal case to be ‘can see which block you’re in’.

Sorry, that’s not even close to the data they show in the article, where they can pinpoint the cage someone is watching in a zoo.

Makes sense of course, otherwise, why even have a GPS receiver in the phone?

This describes how mobile communication work, since mobiles appeared in the 1990s. The phone network has to have (at least) block level accuracy on every phone, otherwise it doesn't work.

Of course it can do much better than that (building level is definitely trivial). The previous comments thread on Hacker News has more details, including some explanations on correlating movements of people to trace every individual one came across and the relations they have. Scary stuff.

GPS is more accurate of course (10 meters or less), but it requires the phone to run a spyware application and drains the battery, unlike simply having a phone that's on.

> That kind of triangulation is nowhere near precise enough to reveal the data shown in the article

You don't have to speculate, the article does state the method:

>> All modern mobile phones have a GPS receiver, which with the help of satellite can track the exact position of the phone with only a few meters distance.

>> The position data NRK acquired consisted of a table with four hundred million map coordinates from mobiles in Norway. A number in the table led us on the trail of Karl Bjarne Bernhardsen.

I think the general observation is that they (government, cell providers, 3rd parties to whom this is sold) have access to most GPS data and all cell tower triangulation data; the latter they have however often it is set up to be recorded.

Do you really propose a manufacturer like Apple is going to grant continuous access to the GPS receiver in their phone to the providers?

I am not sure what you are asking. In the OP article they plot each point so that you can see them explicitly. They then mention these are GPS points.

Cell triangulation needs no client side data; it uses only signal strength and three or more towers.

So what is the connection between the GPS points and the cell triangulation? How does having the cell triangulation data lead to having the GPS points? The parent claims the providers can magically access the GPS receiver in the handsets. But they really cannot, so the providers only have coarse data that cannot be used to track people on this level. The data is from another source, not the provider.

It’s much more likely the user agreed to install an app that is recording his location information.

Oh, that is false of course. If you want GPS data you need access to the phone's GPS, as you are pointing out.

I think the original point about triangulation was just that even if you are as careful as possible, then people can still track you via cell towers.

Not exactly. In cities more towers are placed together to give better coverage (for 5G this is a must). Triangulation can then be as accurate as 30 meters.

If you then have a dataset of lets say 100 points around a location you can estimate the exact location even better.

> Remember that many people ‘have nothing to hide’ so they turn on services like Google Latitude. Then later they’re al surprised when their data is sold to the highest bidder.

Do you have any proof that Google does exactly this?

I don't like Google at all (anymore) but I thought Google was somewhat ok in that they never sold my raw data points even if they would sell accesss to place an ad to "visitors who have been at this geographic location recently".

> even if they would sell accesss to place an ad to "visitors who have been at this geographic location recently

So if I click on the ad, the company behind it knows I was on that geographic location recently. This is how Google leaks data.

Yep, but that is still on a vastly different scale than what this article is talking about where raw data points are dumped.

I'm not saying that the case you mention isn't problematic but there's still a not the same as being able to follow you around the city.

Yes. I had it more than once where I purchased an item from a store and, about 10 minutes later, I received a coupon for a discount at the very store I just made the purchase. It happened to my wife as well.

After the second time that happened, I disabled location in my phone settings and only enable it if I have a specific need for it. I have not received any "spontaneous" coupons since disabling locations.

Still possible without Google dumping your raw location history, but still interesting.

The example is to illustrate that people are fine with giving away their data. Google Latitude no longer exists and I don’t think Google sells data like that, they analyse it themselves. But other services do.

1. Fine. But then one shouldn't single out one company that maybe doesn't do this. I was honestly interested in knowing if they were caught red handed but so far no references to that.

2.The function (at least the parts I used) now exists as part of Google maps.

I’m not sure if Google would sell user’s location data to advertisers since Google is an advertiser. But they definitely record it for themselves, and the government has access to it as well.

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