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Comment by ofrzeta | Hacker News Reader

There's also the Renault Twizy that is readily available and significantly cheaper (starting at 7000 Euro). Actually even the regular electric car by Seat (Mii) is much cheaper than the Electrameccanica.

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I wonder why no one mentioned the Smart. Here in Europe they're quite popular in dense cities. One advantage is they can be parked sideways on most streets, which not only helps with finding a spot but is also easier.

According to Wikipedia[0], a Smart is actually shorter and it can also be electric.

This actually has quite a few shortcomings compared to a Smart:

* Cannot carry a passenger

* Requires a motorcycle license, which many people might not have

* Technically a motorcycle, so safety standards may not be up to par

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_Fortwo#Third_generation_...

"One advantage is they can be parked sideways on most streets"

Caveat lector. I know this to be technically illegal in some European countries, even when the entire vehicle is parked within the lines.

Only anecdotal, but I live in one of those countries. While word-for-word you're correct, it isn't usually practiced because parking that way doesn't conflict with the spirit of the law (I'm not sure if there's a better term for it in English, I hope you understand what I mean). The core idea behind the parking arrangement is you shouldn't be in the way of others and your car is small enough to not be — no one at the time of the writing could foresee a square car. Much in the same way, bikes are allowed to park which ever way they like as long as they don't take up unnecessary space, usually the measure is to fit two in one slot. Needless to say, don't call me when you do happen to get a ticket.

Spirit of the law works.

Tabletop gamers have a more precise words however: "rules as written" and "rules as intended". RAW and RAI for short.

The Smart cars have always looked as if they should be electric, but aren't.

Then there's the whole Kei car phenomenon..

Smart cars are electric. See car2go cars in Amsterdam https://www.car2go.com/NL/en/amsterdam/

> One advantage is they can be parked sideways on most streets

They advertised this but in reality it's rarely possible. They are 2.5m long and most cars in Europe are <2m wide.

E.g. in the UK standard parking is 2.4m wide so a smart sticks out

Can't speak for the UK, but I often see Smarts parked sideways around Paris. The car is indeed longer than the spaces are large, but a factor that helps a lot is that regular cars are rarely parked nicely inside the lines. Which means that, in practice, the sideways Smart doesn't stick out from the other cars.

I see them parked sideways in London all the time.

Same in Prague.

never seen in Italy

> The car is indeed longer than the spaces are large

Assuming your native language is French, I think you mean “wide”, not “large”.

They have elongated. The first ones were shorter. The park sideways gimmick was part of the original marketing, now they are longer that aspect is not advertised as a feature.

Sideways parking would be a killer feature if it actually worked, but they're just a bit too long for that, and according to my memory, have always been.

and it can also be electric

I think they are all electric now, at least in the UK.

The North American Smart was larger than that, wasn't classified as a motorcycle and as of last year has been entirely discontinued:

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a27310639/smart-fortwo-dis...

The main use of these cars was the Car2Go service, which was owned by Mercedes themselves, and that service has also shut down in North America.

They were cute cars, decent for a short trip certainly, but we never saw an all-electric model

Came here to mention the Twizy because I see a it in the steets occasionally, so it seems to be somewhat successfully. The only other "single person, but not quite motorcyle" I see even more often is the BMW C1, which is kind of a scooter with a cabin and can be driven without wearing a helmet here. I'm biased though because I live in a BMW city.

For the BMW C1 you need a motorcycle driver's license, though. (unless you have regular car driver's license that was issued before 1980)

There is a Swiss curiosity made by Peraves. It is a motorcycle that's not quite a car; a monocoque shell around a two-wheeler. When at low speeds, two stabilisers descend. Here's an article from 2006:

https://www.autoweek.com/news/a2065371/cabin-cruiser-flying-...

What is a BMW city? Is it just Munich or some other Bavarian city where loyalty towards BMW is high?

Munich in my case.

My all-time favourite car review was of the Renault Twizzy ... all because of the line "And when it starts raining the canopy keeps you mostly dry"

I've actually never been in one nor read a review, but this confirms what I thought: it doesn't protect you from the elements.

So the question I asked myself is why would anyone buy this instead of a motorcycle? I guess some may argue that it's safer, what with it having four wheels instead of two, but that's about it.

You still need some sort of gear if you don't want to end up wet, you still need some sort of gear in the winter if you don't want to freeze.

I also wonder what the summer situation looks like. As it's not closed, it most likely has no air conditioning, but it's enclosed enough to get much less wind than on a motorcycle (which is still unpleasant in a congested city).

It's big enough that you can't filter in places where it's allowed, you have to park it like a regular car, which in France means paid and limited street parking, or far away and expensive underground parking. Motorcycles can park on the sidewalks for free (at least for the moment).

Twizzy is not available in North America. It does not meet safety standards.

The few that are here are limited to 25 mph, 40 kmh and are car share novelties.

This is the land of the pickup truck and massive SUV. Heck, even motorcycles are bigger than the Twizzy here.

I have a twizy (bought it second hand at 4000 euro) and I love it.

We live in a house and it's our only vehicle (granted, we commute to work by e-bike). I actually fitted it with a trailed attachment so I can run some "big" errands (to the waste-center, buying some wood, etc..).

Maintenance wise it's great: only thing to change is the windshield fluid.

Negative points: the range. You can do 80km with it only. I plan to buy a tesla battery module one day and double the capacity, thus doubling the range. But for now the rare time we've had to go "far" we just rented or borrowed a car.

I've honestly only seen the Twizy be used as a marketing car, something with ads for a local business plastered on the side, probably used to lend out or for small errands.

I think it hasn't done very well, probably mainly because it's an open vehicle. If it had proper doors I think it would've done better. The formula can work, it just has to look a bit more normal.

At the moment, in my country people are much more likely to go for an e-bike.

You also have the Citroën AMI that is available since yesterday.

It looks ... interesting :) It has a max speed of 45 km/h which makes it primarily usable in cities. One edition of the two editions of the Twizy can go 80 km/h.

That somehow manages to be uglier than the Fiat Multipla. It also has a >=< "face".

Also the Aixam and other "license-free" cars typically used by people who lost their license for some reason.

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