Walmart says it will discontinue Jet
techcrunch.com
techcrunch.com
And for my rant/last straw with Amazon: My most recent Amazon frustration: I ordered a Ryzen processor "shipped and sold by Amazon" and got an opened and obviously installed processor. Pins were bent. I have had a few other bad items like that in the last year. I just don't trust them any more.
I want actual single source suppliers that vet their suppliers and supplies. Microcenter is great for a small range of computing products, but you have to go to the store to pick many things up [at least you can see what you are getting and don't have to wait for weeks of turn around]. Amazon's current solution is just automated returns with no acknowledgement they did something really shady. Guess it is time to vote with my wallet.
I actually started using walmart.com over amazon a number of years ago when two things I ordered on Amazon arrived in walmart.com boxes. The resellers were just doing arbitrage and sure enough my $20 orders were an average of $6 cheaper at walmart.
MicroCenter has sophisticated filtering ala Newegg, but in laptops for example, there is exactly 1 model that sports any AMD processor at all.
After more than 20 years of ecommerce growth, it is discouraging how bad things are.
I never thought I would not say it these days, but Ebay has gotten better ( comparatively speaking; maybe others just gotten worse ).
Lately, the 3rd-party market has really turned me off of them.
Sometimes this is nice. If I'm buying paper towels, I don't need to be overwhelmed with 800 options.
[0] https://www.supplychaindive.com/news/walmart-ecommerce-fulfi...
IKEA has good products but they don't come close to general merchandise stores like Amazon or Walmart.
Enable high quality sellers to have their own branded website to sell their own product directly.
Then make it easy to find the Shopify sites via some general search or directory.
You're able to slowly build up power this way without it being too obvious, and you provide an immediately valuable service to sellers that aligns incentives from the beginning.
Both got in this weird state where the tracking showed they were shipped. Great, then they both hit this location where they were "delayed". I got a notice about that.
Then Amazon has this weird status where Amazon says "You can request a replacement or refund in X days." then it says something about "It might be lost." And it stays in that state for days ... But only if you check app do you see any of this additional status do you know any of this.
Otherwise for all I know this stuff would just sit in that state forever, they keep my money, and just roll on...
I had yet another shipment that entered the same state but obviously had NEVER been shipped, there was no tracking, the tracking number was generated but it was never picked up. It also entered the same limbo state where Amazon doesn't tell me anything, but hey they took my money so I guess they don't care.
Having said all that I'm less interested in Amazon BECAUSE their site seems more like Walmart every day. Pushing items that are a dollar cheaper but clearly garbage quality.
At this point I'm just hitting up Target and other random online retailers to compare / use more often.
I bought a beard trimmer, at a local Walmart store, in an unopened package. And found hairs and grime on the blade. Bought new DJI goggles from B&H Photo. Which turned out to be a DJI factory refurb. But it also turned out there were then only refurbs in the supply chain for that being-phased-out model.
So no-surprises supply is perhaps more nuanced and difficult than 'avoid Amazon'.
With my own taste in tech becoming more esoteric, less Amazon or AliExpress and more Alibaba, I've been feeling that personal supply chain quality management is becoming my new normal. Hmm, perhaps, just as we should be teaching personal financial management in school, we should also be teaching supply chain management? :)
The real fun was when I ranted about it on Twitter, their director of social media tried to shame me by saying I was being "too picky" or something.
Because I really don't like the idea of a 90Wh+ battery having some unknown issue that happened before I owned it and catching fire in the most gloriously explosive way.
The whole lithium ion battery industry kinda drives me up the wall. I'd love to just order some cells from Digikey, but no can do.
Unfortunately, the Walmart app is not as good. Even worse, it connects to the following trackers: doubleclick.net, app-measurement.com, braze.com, googlesyndication.com, google tag services.com. This is shocking and super scary and Walmart needs to get some decent tech talent to fix their junk.
This is particularly ironic given that Jet's original premise was to be _entirely_ a marketplace which did not complete with the merchants on it. That plan was soon abandoned however and the warehouse network and first-party products introduced.
I've got tons of music - mp3 songs and albums, hundreds of both purchased Kindle books and uploaded personal ones, Audible audio books, years worth of pictures that was part of some hardware deal, etc?
Its even worse than the problem of Google just shutting down your account since most of these victims weren't paying for anything.
Interesting talk from Scott Havens here about why WalMart acquired them and what Walmart problems they were able to solve.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FskIb9SariI
There simply isn't a need for jet.com branding anymore.
Would someone who qualifies for the Olympics for the first time from a powerhouse country not qualify as "one of the best in the world"?
I just say that the brand is strong only in USA but not so much outside. Not many people care about or even know the brand in most countries. So it's not a lot of strength worldwide even though it's valuable in Forbes and very strong in USA. Coca-Cola or Apple are much more strong worldwide.
Who cares? Countries are not all equal. This is one of those "Either the sun will come up in the morning, or it won't. Two choices; fifty-fifty" arguments.
If you peruse the HN comments from the time, many of them were convinced that this was a waste of money (though not the top comment, interestingly enough): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3817840
Instagram's branding/demo was a big part of what FB was after.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Procter_%26_Gamble_bra...
Presumably they capture more of the overall market for detergent that way. Maybe the same mechanisms do not apply to retail in general.
Therefore making P&G more money.
It seems plausible that as walmart.com becomes better known as a good alternative to amazon for straightforward items, it might actually make people trust the walmart brand more - and put more shoppers in stores.
If they have a positive experience online, that could affect their impression of the Walmart brand in general.
I'm almost certain you meant to say Walmart here.
https://wiki.lspace.org/mediawiki/Sam_Vimes_Theory_of_Econom...
Well your comment isn’t particularly coherent then.
But I think basically anyone using Jet pretty much knew it was WalMart anyway so it didn't matter.
Like the post above said, much of the Jet acquisition was likely really just to absorb the IP and expertise, anyway.
That said, we recently ordered some patio furniture from Walmart.com after comparison shopping on Amazon and Home Depot. And I suppose next month we’ll find better deals on yet another site. Don’t get too cozy with any of these companies and keep your eyes open for price and quality drift.
// no amount of branding awareness tv ads are fixing the name recognition they lost with that one... still redirects though.
Interesting trivia from a friend working there, and quite unusual for a Japanese company: most (Project Management, Development, Management) internal communication above a certain job-grade level is conducted in English, including in Japan.
Their branding strategy is garbage.
But, yes, it's confusing.
I did use play.com lots, but never Rakuten so far.
That may also be that I don't buy CDs, DVDs anymore.
I think of this as the social media Gell-Mann Amnesia Effect. You see comments from folks with zero insight and no doubt no specialized knowledge of the relevant industry, recognize that they are likely just making an off-the-cuff comment without any value, open the next thread where it's less obvious how little industry knowledge the posters have, and resume giving their comments the benefit of the doubt.
I fall victim to it with some frequency. Almost any comments here about the medical industry, of which I'm a veteran, are just wildly ignorant - and spoken with the same strident confidence as comments about the airline industry (for example), about which commenters are likely just as profoundly ignorant. But then I don't know they're profoundly ignorant, and suddenly I think, gosh, that person has some incisive insights.
Seems like it would be useful to market to other demographics or customers that don't have positive associations with Walmart.
I already have a preference for Target, Walmart's competitor, because I associate Walmart with prioritizing cheap over everything, including quality and style.
It probably makes a lot more sense to focus on a single brand.
Walmart tried to make Jet.com focused on large cities but that didn’t do much.
I took the job at Jet because I wanted to learn more about F#, coming from a Haskell background, and I was happy to find that my coworkers were all really smart people and the codebase, while far from perfect, was written using functional concepts, and avoided the "writing C# in F#" trap.
I left Jet partly because there had been talks of absorbing Jet into Walmart, which was fine, but also moving everyone to a JVM stack and off of F#, and I'm not a huge fan of Java. This, in combination with an offer from one of the big "brand name" tech companies, gave me an impetus to move on.
Still, I will always miss my time at Jet. It was an incredibly fun work environment that fostered learning and was typically very good to its employees.
Disclaimer: The accuracy of this should be taken with a grain of salt, I wasn't involved with any of the decision making.
Across the Walmart.com websites I didn't see anything from jet tech. The only thing I heard talk of was essentially reporting to push Marc's basket economics passion.
I believe Jet's acquisition was essentially a way to buy Marc Lore as eCommerce CEO.
I've met with many Jet folks and they are an awesome crew to work with, but Jet didn't really operate at Walmart scale.
Both the distribution centers and the technology driving them have been integrated with Walmart systems early on after acquisition and many current and future developments in that area are based around formerly Jet tech written in F#.
That's not going anywhere.
While I haven't used F# much, as a professional OCaml and Scala dev, Scala is hands down the more powerful language. OCaml isn't bad, but it leaves a lot to be desired.
A little offtopic, but if OCaml got rid of its module system, added type classes, polymorphic functions, higher-kinded types, multi-core support and removed objects (not that it matters that much), it would be my dream language.
Basically, I want Haskell without the dogma. Though, I guess that's what unsafePerformIO provides!
Not to mention it has subtype polymorphism on par with what you get in C# that you can really get a lot of mileage from (and which gets too easily glossed over by some FP neophytes), AND an extensive reflection API to bridge the gap if you have nothing else to fall back to.
Your dream language sounds a lot more like F# than Scala tbh.
F# doesn't have (easy to use) type classes or higher kinded types, but has simplified modules and full access to .NET object system for all your polymorphism needs, and a much more seamless interop with the platform it's running on as there's significantly less "magic" happening in the compiler compared to Scala.
Maybe because it's in the name ️
I'm not saying it has zero importance, just less than the 90s/00s.
Perhaps JVM bytecode is arguably just too complex for safe verification... (although JavaCard interpreters manage to do it for a restricted subset (with similar restrictions to WASM!) without too many problems)
I don't have a problem with the JVM; virtually all my personal projects nowadays are in Clojure, and I actually gave a talk at Conj last year....so yeah, I'm a fan :).
When Jet.com launched they had some promos going on so I wanted to check out what it was all about and ordered a bunch of stuff. I think at that point they had 2 day shipping over 25 without a membership.
Their signature purple package arrives on time, in a larger than expected box. I open it, and there's a smaller Amazon box inside. I open THAT and it has all my items. I got two receipts, one from jet.com and one inside the Amazon box with the actual cost of my stuff without the promo codes.
I don't know but something about this was poetic and funny about the world of venture funded startups.
Even now when I ship something from Walmart to my address it says Jet.com. hopefully it's not an Amazon prime wrapper anymore.
Don't recall if they explicitly stated 'they'll make it up in volume.'
https://www.theverge.com/2020/5/18/21262316/doordash-pizza-p...
The package (of heavy bottles of water) shipped next day and each bottle was meticulously wrapped in mesh paper. You could have stuffed a mattress with all the wrapping.
All for $1.99/bottle and free overnight shipping....
We have very different ways of seeing it. I would have found it absurd and infuriating.
Fun fact: Startups spend almost 40 cents of every VC dollar on Google, Facebook, and Amazon. [1]
[1] https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/socialcapital-annual-lett...
FTFY.
I figure that some people have identified arbitrage opportunities in pricing differences between the two sites and are making easy money receiving orders on one site and fulfilling from the other.
I recall the Jet price sometimes even being cheaper than the Amazon price which was intersting.
They've introduced a yearly fee for delivery and we signed up. It's been top notch. In my area, they outsource the delivery to doordash. Order, pick a time for delivery and it is delivered. Works well.
Back to the simple ... maybe they have found a way to compete where amazon cannot?
In the Uk Amazon had this policy too but in reality most non essential/but useful items were sent to me in less than a week.
Of course most of the very useful items were not in stock at all the first few weeks, and some still aren’t.
Edit: good lessons in not depending on one supply route and as a result I will buy my fresh food from smaller companies from now on.
Given the sheer scale of the lockdown and following disruption the existing supermarkets have handled it really well except for the toilet paper situation which was beyond silly on the consumers part and there really wasn't much that the supermarkets could have done at that point.
Also, regarding the article, Jet from my memory gave Wal-Mart the infrastructure for online sales, so it's not like they didn't get anything for it. If anything, they are likely playing accounting games and writing off the acquisition, thereby improving their return on investment metrics into the future. When you acquire a company, there is sometimes a penalty to ROI if you pay too much, shows up in the form of intangible assets. When you write off an asset, you are basically removing it from your balance sheet.
If stores are closed all their stock can just be delivered with UberDash(tm) delivery drivers because they are everywhere:
https://s.yimg.com/uu/api/res/1.2/mu18i_4q9FQSqMWuBtGuXw--~B...
There's still the entry barrier of having a background check, verifying insurance, etc., so it'd likely be more effort than it's worth for neighborhood Joe to sign up for it unless he wanted this as a full-fledged side hustle. If people want to do a "community delivery"-style thing, they can just sign-up for DoorDash/Postmates/IC/etc.
what happens when I make the delivery, but someone gets injured in the process? DoorDash has insurance for this most likely.
Shipt supposedly covers it–their contractor agreement states that you need to have the state required auto insurance and they have a policy that takes effect while working that will increase your coverage to commercial-level insurance. I have also asked their insurance department about this directly and this has been confirmed.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-retail-walmart-delivery/e...
Option A: You drive to Walmart, pick up your shopping and three other people's, you drive home via three other homes.
Option B: A driver starts at Walmart, picks up four people's shopping including yours, delivers it all, and returns to Walmart.
Seems to me the number of person-hours and distance driven is identical in both cases?
So option B is really, "A driver starts at Walmart, picks up three people's shopping, delivers it all, returns to Walmart. You also drive to Walmart, pick up your shopping, and drive home."
Option B would likely be an employee requiring additional taxes to be paid and benefits to be supplied.
This is not a comprehensive argument.
If anyone is delivering something to your home, they know where you live.
It’s so much better to either piggyback on the mail or just have customers do curbside.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/14/sixth-confirmed-amazon-worke...
(Not trivializing deaths.)
Additionally, there is little reason to commit to a delivery timeline that they cannot commit to. Prime 2-day delivery is not actually a guarantee, as far as I understand it (and in some places it is not 2-day, e.g. Hawaii, from what I've heard), but it is a much firmer commitment, because Prime members are paying a fee for improved service. Regardless of whether Prime delivery is guaranteed, Amazon has optimized much of its logistics chain around <=2-day delivery. So you may be reaping some benefits from that.
Finally, Amazon is almost definitely using the cheapest possible shipping option (unless you are opting to pay more for improved options). Just because the rate paid is low does not mean that carriers will purposefully slow down. Once those items are picked, the cheapest thing to do is to move them quickly. Regardless of shipping option, that package still incurs a cost everywhere it sits, and every time it moves. So it will be routed as efficiently as it can to you. Holding it is just accruing liability (more options for loss or damage). If you happen to be near the DC, or near to the shipping carrier's hub, it's likely you will get stuff very quickly, even if it is estimated at longer.
You may be seeing the worst-case estimate for cross-country shipment, but benefit from one or several of the things above.
But also I think they’re using it as an excuse to use cheaper shipping. I know bestbuy is doing this for sure.
I think they figure no one will notice they’re using smartpost and if you complain just blaming the speed on the pandemic.
(1) Walmart's Global eCommerce big re-write was an expensive mess. About a billion over budget and two three years behind timeline promises. There was leadership churn and they needed a new CEO of that business unit - Marc Lore made sense. Prior to Lore the CEOs (and CTO for that matter) were not technical at all.
(2) They wanted to make some changes that would make the eCommerce business unprofitable for a long time - something shareholders would not be happy about. Buying a business and allowing Marc Lore to make those decisions was, in a way, some nice sleight of hand.
The acquisition blindsided the eCommerce CTO. DD was done out of Bentonville and was rumored to be partially done by a SVP at Google.
The tensions between the profitable brick-and-mortar business and eCommerce _grew_ after the Jet.com acquisition. It ultimately led to Greg Foran resigning in protest to how much money was being tipped down the drain trying to compete with Amazon (that is massively subsidized by AWS).
Walmart make their fair share of mistakes. They have had periods of incompetence at scale in some areas. But they aren't afraid of making tough and interesting decisions. That I can respect. If you think running or working for a startup is hard, try thinking through re-orgs and strategic re-alignments at the scale of Walmart.
Not quite sure what you are referring to in terms of making changes that would make e-commerce unprofitable for a long time.
Your last point I agree with as well- I often felt they were far too conservative- mid-upper management was often overpaid for their ability and thus it was in their best interest to not rock the boat too much and protect their fiefdoms and thus their jobs.
At a crude level: To compete with Amazon means running eCommerce at a loss just like Amazon do. AWS subsidizes Amazon eCommerce, brick-and-mortar subsidizes Walmart eCommerce.
It is more nuanced than that of course but at a high level that is a big challenge to profit.
RE: JK.
He surrounded himself with a handful of smart technical VPs and lots of dumb ones that he held close. The good ones eventually left and the dumb ones stayed. The replacements were a mixed bag. The tension between JK and the more successful business and technical unit (mobile) siloed under a rival executive was healthy for a while then when the axe fell on mobile, it was a disaster - lost a lot of good people.
This is super interesting. Why would an SVP at Google be involved?
Acquisitions are bad, folks.
Only two YCombinator companies have ever gone public. The rest of the companies “exited” by either dying or being acquired.
I doubt many of them are chugging along as profitable “lifestyle business” without having a goal of being acquired.
Now they simply redirect to advertising.com so that the user is forced to accept every form of tracking before being able to read an article, their emails, a blog, etc.
Some sites break the back button in such a way that they only appear once in the pop up, so with them it is just click-hold and select one entry and you are done.
Others end up with many entries in the pop up so the one you want is farther down, but the one you want is still there too.
And some fill the whole list, but if you select the bottom list entry, and then click-hold again (maybe more than once if the site is really obnoxious), you can usually get out.
With countless Cookies ....
Although, Walmart also is known for accepting lower quality goods from brands in order to sell them at lower price, which isn’t much different from counterfeits, so I still wouldn’t buy from them.
Genuinely curious, I'm unaware of this...
For example, you might get a TV that shares the same model name, but has multiple SKUs, one of which has fewer HDMI ports or uses panels with a higher dead pixel tolerance.
There are a couple examples here of products that appear to be the same, but aren't quite the same.
I also remember reading about a lawnmower manufacturer that was forced to use plastic parts (the deck, IIRC) instead of metal to reduce cost to sell at Walmart. I couldn't find that article now, though. I read it years ago.
edit: gas powered tools (just tools in general) particularly lawn mowers are made to cheaper specs for walmart.
For much of the 90s and early 2000s offshoring of manufacturing in the US was primarily driven my Walmart demanding lower per unit prices. Manufacturers had little choice but to comply since not being in Walmart meant losing out on a majority of the market.
The pattern seems to happen many brands over time that sell out or fail. You see it across markets with brands like Packard Bell, Kodak, Polaroid, Martha Stewart, Kate Spade, RCA, etc.
50 years ago if you had a Zenith or RCA TV it was a sign of quality, 10 years ago you'd be mocked. Before the turn of the century Philips was known for consumer electronics and even made videogame consoles, now they make lightbulbs.
For instance, half a dozen Japanese electronics manufacturers tried to sell televisions, a business that the Japanese have dominated for 40 years.
Half of them threw in the towel. People buy on price; nobody was going to pay a 25% premium for a Pioneer or a JVC TV.
At the same time, Chinese companies like TCL began gobbling market share.
I'm typing this on a "Silo" TV that I bought at Fry's about five years ago. When I bought it, I figured it would be junk, but it was so cheap I couldn't resist.
Five years later, it's still going strong.
Silo is still selling TVs (cheaply) and Pioneer is gone from the market.
A few years later we bought a "premium" LCD TV rated highly on Consumer Repots which broke less than 2 years later. We replaced with a cheapy, for 1/2 the price and it's already lasted longer. Even if it didn't (which was expected), I could buy 3x the cheap TVs for the same price.
It was Walmart that drove manufacturing to China. Walmart wanted name brands and dictated the price point at which they were willing to buy those brands. When the manufacturers did the numbers they realized that they could only service Walmart if they outsourced.
The companies setup factories in China and basically showed the Chinese how to make the products. Eventually the Chinese started to produce competing products that were at first inferior but have gradually gotten better.
Sometimes it's a TV with a lower spec panel or limited I/O, other times it'll be something like a Laptop with a smaller harddrive and less ram to drive the price point down.
It can go the other direction too, where the spec is bumped. Roku makes versions of their Streaming Box that are only available at Walmart. They're not inferior, they're just configurations you can't get elsewhere. The Express+ is a Walmart only version of their crappiest STB with their premium remote, because the basic remote sucks.
This happens a lot at places that do price matching because it's then impossible to say you found a product elsewhere because it literally is only sold in their store.
Marc Lore was doing a great job with Diapers.com but ran out of money and had to sell to Amazon
that must have been a painful 2 years working for the guys who beat you
now WalMart has him and if they give him the right resources he is going to make a big dent in the whole 'Amazon is going to take over all of retail' narrative
He alone is worth far more than $3 billion
Aside: Jet's HQ is in my hometown. I considered interviewing there after a coworker went there, but being bought by walmart really soured me on it. Stodgy company that strongly discourages things like alcohol in the office. Fine, I don't need to drink at work, but weird. I hope they're able to transfer Jet's good tech branding and hiring pipeline to "walmart labs" or whatever they're rebranding jet's org as.
Or do you think it should be one rule for the richly paid programmers, and another for the low paid warehouse workers?
Besides the drinking thing one of my friends said they were trying to ban swearing as well?
You can almost guarantee that before they brought in this rule, some guy groped a girl while drunk after drinking at the office. That's the size they're at.
There's a world of legal difference when that happens under your roof, or after work.
Walmart Grocery had just started taking off. By 2017 it had become a 10 figure business- and by some analysis it was concluded that online grocery sales only eat away at in-store grocery sales by a tiny amount, so this was wholly attributed to e-commerce.
And then there was the direct bolt-on of Jet's revenue streams into the e-commerce results of Walmart as a whole, as well as a lot of other acquisitions. I am not saying Lore didn't have a hand in their growth, but the stage was set well for him.
If I'm going to invest in spending the time to really learn a programming language I want to know that there's a community that's doing reasonably well to promote it. Microsoft has done a terrible job - treating F# as a 2nd class citizen for a very long time. Microsoft has all its eggs in the C# basket with respect to .NET. Without Microsoft support F# will continue to be a tiny niche - sadly.
It's a terrific product with little corporate backing. C# gets more F# like everyday. I have limited time to invest in learning technology (especially the way front-end tech changes so quickly) that it's hard to justify committing to becoming proficient in F#.
Shuttering the Jet.com branding makes sense now that Walmarts ecommerce play has gained momentum, as their branding has way more mindshare.
Then see what WalMart's ecommerce growth was before Marc Lore
and what it is now after Marc Lore
Perhaps the single biggest factor that it is growing fast is that they got the CEO/Founder of Diapers.com and Jet.com to come help them understand ecommerce
Walmart's ecommerce platform is fundamentally the same thing it was when they bought jet.com. People around here don't know what they're talking about.
Marc wanted to close down all the in-house data centers and move everything into Azure. Walmart inked a big deal with Azure with sweetheart pricing. I'm sure they're paying through the nose now because Marc Lorey only knows how to spend other people's money, not make it.
Walmart execs bought hard core into the SV culture as the means to success online. As soon as his 5 year lock up is done, he's out of the company.
I think I must have gone through like 4 different emails using slightly modified addresses and all my CCs.
I’m surprised Walmart kept the brand going in the first place, since the focus was clearly on Walmart properties (including the logistics tech stack, etc).
What will happen to the Jet office and team in Jersey? Will that just become a Wal-Mart Office now?
I especially liked the buy one get one-half free specials on heavy items, for them having no clue how to pack things. Thankfully Chewy seems to have taken up that mantle. (/s)
Rest in peace Jet. Thank you for getting me used to buying toilet paper 4 packs at a time, preparing me for the COVID shortages.
What a load of corporate bullshit. How does anyone actually write that and live with themselves?
Walmart runs on Jet's backend now. FYI
Amazon is just too expensive.