Some coronavirus patients haven't gotten their senses of smell or taste back yet
wsj.com
wsj.com
Overall, 0/10, do not recommend unless you have to go vegan but don't have any willpower. When my sense of taste gradually returned, I practically cried I was so relieved.
When we came into land my left ear didn't pop and I went completely deaf in my left ear. I was so freaked out by it. If I snapped my fingers next to my left ear I couldn't hear it at all. Doctor told me to not worry, it will come back, asked me to go see him if it wasn't normal again after 1 month.
About 2 weeks later I was sitting at work and out of no where i had this weird sensation in my left ear and in a few seconds it was like a increasing rush of air followed by a popping sound and my hearing was back, I was shocked I stood up in the office and was like "MY HEARING IS BACK!", I was so happy.
Even tho I could ear from my right ear, it was a horrible experience. I couldn't imagine permanently losing any sensory be it hearing, taste, vision, smell, touch. I wouldn't wish the experience on anyone.
It has addictive qualities, so use cautiously and adhere to labeling guidelines, particularly around duration of use, but it will get you down.
As we land, the worst kind of “your head is going to explode” sensation. Eyes watering. So much pain I’m rocking back and forward in my seat. Nothing can be done. Nothing can stop it.
Ended up losing my hearing (both ears) for 2 months, everything sounded like it was underwater, not even distant. But underwater.
Anyway. Turns out I have some random allergy to birch trees and being within 2km of one when it’s pollinating can block me up.
Utterly horrifying experience. Losing a sense is no joke. Makes you understand how fragile the human form is.
Just a polite reminder to people to please stop doing this. The flu kills people. Stay out of aircraft if you have it, please.
I remembered this movie because, when people losses their sense of taste, the hotels re-invent it's business model by serving food with different textures!!
PS: don't get me wrong, this is just in the film. I know that the anger in US is caused by police's wrongdoings.
I discovered this after starting to use Crest Gum Care mouthwash and it was pretty annoying.
Luckily the loss of taste was not permanent and returned a few days after stopping use.
Toothpaste burned my tongue, therefore I lost my sense of taste.
but as:
I lost my sense of taste, therefore toothpaste burned my tongue.
which might not make so much sense as an affect of the losing taste, but does explain why they don't name the toothpaste.
What does this mean? Like, you covered your tongue in toothpaste? I'm very curious about what led you to try this — a moment of desperation?
Thankfully it only lasted a couple of weeks.
I like oatmeal (or porridge as it’s called here), but I can understand why people wouldn’t.
Usually when it happens I switch from eating solid food to liquid meal replacements and tinned fruit, things I can more or less just pour down my throat.
I remember when it came back. Someone made me a cup of tea (I'm British) and I rhapsodised for about 5 minutes about what an excellent cup of tea it was. Up until then, I couldn't really detect any difference between tea and coffee.
As a former supertaster, lover of bourbon (I used to be able to tell my bourbons apart by smell), serious cook, and total foodie this has been the most depressing experience in my life.
Think about the experience that you have when you walk from one room to another, or into a field of flowers. I can't smell the differences between rooms, I can't smell the flowers, I can't even smell smoke.
People love to say you're so lucky you can't smell all of those bad smells but life isn't about the bad smells. Smell is memory. We wake up and smell the air around us, the dirt, the trees, the people we love, the people we hate, even exhaust fumes. The smell of ink on paper, spices, lavender, tea, the air after an electrical storm, the subtleties in beer, freshly fallen snow, rain, grass, the aroma of wine, freshly roasted coffee. I can no longer smell any of that.
When I realized that my loss of sense of smell was permanent I was suicidal for many months. I've gotten over that feeling for the most part and now I work to make the best of it because this is just the way that things are.
We all have our challenges. When faced with things that we can't change the best way forward is to work with what we have and make the best of it. Since I can no longer tell when food is ready by the change of smell I have to pay close attention to what it looks like and use a thermometer to carefully monitor its temperature. I can't tell when something is burning.
I've installed gas sensors in my house because I can't smell the gas that comes out of my gas range but I refuse to cook on electric. I have an induction burner but it's not the same. You can't beat fire. And I'm not giving up. I've gotten pretty good at roasting coffee but mostly by eye.
My 1966 Volvo caught fire as I was driving because I couldn't smell the gas coming out of the leaking fuel pump or the smoke coming out of the engine.
Fortunately my neighbor was in the passenger seat and he pointed out that the engine was on fire. He kept telling me that the car was beginning to smell a lot like fuel and he asked me if he could open the windows. (It's an old car so things break easily.) Fortunately the car didn't explode and we got out safely.
Loss of smell is no fun. Try cooking or eating while holding your nose. You'll get the idea. Just keep in mind that it's always like that. You can breathe in as deeply as you like and you still won't get the smells. You won't create the new memories and you'll have a hard time recalling the various smells that you've grown up with. They'll fade with time.
But like... are you sure you weren't some sort of super-smeller before hand? I don't appear to have smell issues (I believe) - but I definitely don't experience the subtleties you did, and that's coming from a person who obsesses over the fine details of things. Maybe I have some slight smell issues...
I've been interested in sensory prosthetics for a while now. Using alternate sensory routes for balance, or sight, is a thing. I wish I were hearing more about it in mainstream science news - it seems like giving blind people 3D lidar perception through a grid of skin cells would be a good thing. Scent would be orders of magnitude more complex, but maybe still a good goal for future R&D?
How did you end up Losing it?
Monell is one group that studies anosmia. There is as yet no known cure.
Yes, definitely! It also tends to jog other memories from long ago, things that you had otherwise forgotten can suddenly be brought forward by the right smell.
Ben & Jerry's ice cream has large chunks of toppings because Ben Cohen had a reduced ability to smell. He charactized quality heavily towards texture of the ice cream resulting in what Ben & Jerry's is know for today.
They ended up with the perfect mix of little shards and big chunks by freezing a case of Heath bars and throwing it onto the concrete floor from the top of a ladder.
• https://www.cuisinart.com/shopping/appliances/ice_cream/ice-...
• https://www.amazon.com/Jerrys-Homemade-Cream-Dessert-Book/dp...
My favorite thing is to get in-season Hood strawberries and mix those into a real vanilla base. So good!
I became a little disappointed watching them wear Ppe masks and pour guar gum into the icecream liquid..They said it smooths the texture...
I have an issue where I have these crazy, unusual "allergic" reactions (doctors I've gone to actually say it's "hypersensitivity" rather than a normal "allergy"), and one of the weird "symptoms" is that if I'm out and about while reacting to something I ate, my sense of smell gets severely heightened. I'll smell food cooking at restaurants and feel more disgusted than not, even for stuff I'd generally enjoy all the time.
Pretty crazy how human biology works.
Eh, it's okay, but thank you. :) If you have to lose a sense smell is the one. It's a genetic abnormality that you'll find in some Appalachian families so I'm not even particularly unusual among my kin.
> I have an issue where I have these crazy, unusual "allergic" reactions (doctors I've gone to actually say it's "hypersensitivity" rather than a normal "allergy"), and one of the weird "symptoms" is that if I'm out and about while reacting to something I ate, my sense of smell gets severely heightened. I'll smell food cooking at restaurants and feel more disgusted than not, even for stuff I'd generally enjoy all the time.
> Pretty crazy how human biology works.
Wow, now that's wild and I'm sorry to hear it. I'd say being disgusted by stuff you normally enjoy is a rougher burden than just being short a sense!
It was the strangest thing - everything tasted of nothing. Thankfully it had fully come back within 48 hours.
It lasted for about 2.5 weeks. Around week 3, it started to very, very slowly come back. I went from literally 0.0% to about 10%-15%. I could smell traces of things if I inhaled very deeply. I was super paranoid it was gone forever. I can't tell you how joyless eating becomes when you have ZERO sense of taste or smell.
Finally, around the end of week 4, I was probably close to 75%. I'm _finally_ back to 100% today. This virus sucks.
It won't necessarily appeal to you, however.
Other than the concomitant anxiety and stress ("freaked me out") did you notice other neurological symptoms?
My nose has recovered significantly and I have a more familiar pressure in my cheekbones and forehead that was missing when I was sick.
IMO, based entirely on my own anecdotal experience, it's probably that the virus is really, really lethal against the respiratory lining. I have no idea what would make it so specific- maybe ACE? But it felt like it was just burning through my lungs and then my nose. It felt... dead, inside.
The ~8 hour period of losing my sense of smell was characterized by an extremely powerful smell of snot and a subtle kind of ammonia-like sensation. The distinctive smell of snot is apparently mostly due to free radicals generated by dying cells. I'm not sure this contradicts with nerve-related action though, which could presumably cause similar sensations.
Would be real sad when I drink some paint thinner and eat a stale load of bread though.
People have been trying to tie covid to zinc since the beginning, IMO mostly out of desperation. Zinc oral sprays were pulled by the FDA for causing permanent total loss of smell- by coating the inside of your nose with zinc. People just wanted it to be related.
And we're still learning. Never forget the unknown unknowns. It's ridiculous to quote some survival statistic and call it a covid-barbecue.
[1] https://www.wsj.com/articles/coronavirus-hijacks-the-body-fr...
The thing with losing the sense of smell is that it seems to happen mostly to mild cases. Cases where you wouldn't even call yourself a "survivor" any more than you would call yourself a flu survivor or a common cold survivor.
That's the scary part, we are not talking about a few percents, most of them elderly people. This is about middle aged, healthy people, who may not even be part of the statistics, and therefore more likely to be underrepresented.
No matter what kind of illness or injury, you don't see how bad and permanent it often is unless you are personally involved or close to the person, but by the time you are an adult, you should know this is generally the case. The outside world, including the keepers of medical statistics write down on their scorecard that someone recovered, but it's not really like that.
It's only really people who live with conditions that have long term effects on your life that really understand it.
Serous kidney problems are no joke and you might well end up with chronic kidney failure - so you will be on the pathway to dialysis and transplant in the future.
Hyposmia is also, in its own right, a symptom of the flu, of the common cold and of sinusitis. [1]
[1] https://www.raleighcapitolent.com/blog/lost-sense-of-smell?e...
As a contribution: the experiences of never having smelt is very different from the experience of loosing it later in life. The former is something that dawns on the person sometime in their youth when they realise they really can't smell farts. The other is a crushing loss of joy from their lives when they lose the wonderful taste of food, fresh flowers, and "new car smell" (whatever that is!). I never lost these things, I love food, and I like looking at pretty flowers. I am jealous that I don't experience smelling, but I do not miss it because I never had it in the first place.
As a side note, living with anosmia is mildly inconvienient for most. I am paranoid about food going off, and working with flammable gasses is always a little unnerving. Apparently the rates of depression, dysfunctional relationships, and early death are somewhat higher in my cohort. I personally have little trouble with it, and find my condition a useful conversation starter at social events.
While it was shitty and lingered a while the worst of it wasn't actually that much worse than a flu for me. Somewhere between the flu and bronchitis on the scale of how sick I've been in my life.
Somewhere between 20-50% of infections are believed to be completely asymptomatic:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scena...
(my anecdote isn’t as valid as a severity-biased anecdote?)
I got it around the last week of February, before any travel restrictions in Canada. We get (or got) tons of tourists from both Asia and Europe.
So Covid was likely floating around here, lots of people I know said they were sick but very few got tested, but our demographics mean that only 1 person died (80+ year old man) and no one else was ever hospitalized.
Also: the Theodore Roosevelt. The captain wouldn't have risked his career for a bunch of sailors with bad flu. But apparently all of the propulsion team was affected to such an extent that they couldn't tend the reactor any longer. It's that bad.
...and this is the same middle ground that exists for every other cold and flu, every single year.
Anosmia is a common side effect of a variety of illnesses, and in the vast majority of cases, it resolves on its own. But this fact doesn’t make good headlines
Anosmia is a common side effect of a variety of illnesses, and in the vast majority of cases, it resolves on its own. But this fact doesn’t make good headlines.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-12/covid-19-...
> “These data demonstrated that the recovered SARS patients had a poor quality of life 12 years following recovery, and were susceptible to inflammation, tumors, and glucose and lipid metabolic disorders,” researchers wrote.
The idea seems to be that SARS-CoV-2 can infect both the upper and lower respiratory tract. Lower infection attack the lungs and are typically much more severe. Presumably that's what makes SARS classic so deadly. Upper infections are typically milder but spread more easily, that's what the flu and common cold do.
Loss of smell would indicate a upper respiratory tract infection, and therefore a higher chance of generally mild symptoms, more like the flu than SARS.
I don't know what the latest scientific literature has to say about that though, everything is so recent. Loss of smell wasn't even recognized as a symptom 3 months ago...
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scena...
Yes, this virus is worse than the flu. But not nearly to the extent being portrayed by the OP. All illnesses have long-term sequelae.
(Also, since you’re right that we have ample data on this virus, it seems an odd choice to cite data for SARS, when discussing Covid-19.)
Note that CDC data on the flu is not on the IFR, they only have an estimate for the symptomatic fatality rate which doesn't include asymptomatic flu cases, while their COVID-19 IFR is including asymptomatic cases too.
(This seems to be because really caring about the true IFR of a virus is a recent development spurred on by this pandemic)
> Where are you getting the numbers for flu? As far as I'm aware the best guess for flu IFR is 0.04% compared to COVID-19s 0.4% IFR
Any number of different sources; 0.1% is the generally accepted estimate of overall IFR for influenza in an average year, based on statistical extrapolation from seroprevalence surveys. Here’s an article that tries to be as fatalistic as possible, which still cites an overall IFR for flu of 0.1%:
https://www.healthline.com/health-news/why-covid-19-isnt-the...
If you absolutely do not want to rely on CDC numbers, here’s a literature review on the subject which puts the symptomatic IFR at 0.1%, at the extreme high end. Most estimates of symptomatic IFR, according to the review, are between 5-50 / 100k:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3809029/#!po=0....
There’s clearly a large variance in estimates for the flu at all levels, but no reasonable way to claim a 10x difference in severity for Covid without cherry-picking the worst estimates for it, and the best estimates for influenza.
I guess the CDC are using symptomatic case fatality to mean the IFR then? Or else it doesn't make any sense.
> Any number of different sources; 0.1% is the generally accepted estimate of overall IFR for influenza in an average year. Here’s an article that tries to be as fatalistic as possible, which still cites an overall IFR for flu of 0.1%:
That was exactly what I was talking about, they use this source from the CDC https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2017-2018.htm which again is explicitly talking about "symptomatic cases"
> How many people get sick with flu every year?
> CDC conducts surveillance for people who see their health care provider for flu-like illness through the Outpatient Influenza-like Illness Surveillance Network (ILINet); a network of thousands of health care providers who report the proportion of patients seeking care for flu-like illness weekly to CDC. This system allows CDC to track levels of medically attended flu-like illness over the course of the flu season. CDC does not know exactly how many people get sick with seasonal flu each year. There are several reasons for this including that ILINet does not include every health care provider and monitors flu-like illness, not laboratory-confirmed influenza cases. Also, flu illness is not a reportable disease and not everyone who gets sick with flu seeks medical care or gets tested.
> CDC uses mathematical modeling in combination with data from traditional flu surveillance systems to estimate the numbers of flu illnesses in the United States. CDC estimates that flu has resulted in between 9.3 million and 49 million illnesses each year in the United States since 2010. For more information on these estimates see CDC’s Disease Burden of Influenza page. For more information on CDC surveillance systems, see CDC’s Overview of Influenza Surviellance in the United States.
The way I read that, from the CDC's POV if you aren't symptomatic you didn't get the flu. Similarly, if you are symptomatic it doesn't necessarily mean you did get the flu.
So yeah, virus infections SUCK, even if they don't kill you.
Now I can appreciate chronic illness and how isolating it is, even if just a little bit. You can have an amazing support network and still fall through the cracks. I am so glad that I still have my health and try not to take it for granted.
Jumpstarted hypothyroidism as well which is now autoimmune/Hashimoto's. Virus infections can really really mess you up.
Stanford is testing interferon-lambda.[1] Known drug, used for treating hepatitis. This has to be given early, within 2 days of testing positive for the virus. A group in the UK is testing interferon-beta.
Eli Lily is testing an engineered antibody.[2] This is new technology, an antibody specifically targeted to this virus. Testing in humans just started; no results yet. Lily is putting this into production in advance of testing, to get the production scaleup problems out of the way, in hope it works.
There are other drugs in development; these are all in human testing now.
Early stage treatment options change things. Advice will change from "stay home until it gets serious" to "get tested and treated as soon as there's any suspicion." Instead of overloaded ICUs, front-line medical care gets overloaded. It really starts to matter than the US doesn't have enough testing capacity.
[1] https://med.stanford.edu/id/covid19/lambda.html
[2] https://www.biopharmadive.com/news/eli-lilly-abcellera-coron...
Time is all it will take for us to know.
I mean, not to say I want to lose my sense of taste, just that losing feel in your mouth seems probably worse.
I no longer really taste much of anything in the front half of my tongue. Still can in the back half, though. I've gotten used to it, although it annoys me when I think about it. I'm lucky I haven't lost it completely, that would be a sad day.
I think you're right, in that as long as I can feel the food, I could eat alright. Probably would eat a bit healthier, though.
To answer the original question: "Postviral olfactory disorders usually occur after an upper respiratory tract infection (URTI) associated with a common cold or influenza. With a prevalence between 11 and 40% they are among the common causes of olfactory disorders."
From here: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16733337/?from_term=anosmia+...
More information:
https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Zinc-Health%20Professional...
(search for "anosmia", the medical term for loss of sense of smell)
I wonder if the process outlined could be used in therapy to bring back taste.
What are the relative rates of these issues with nCoV-19 over Rhinovirus, normal Coronavirus, and Flu A/B?
Any neurotropic virus can cause this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anosmia#List_of_causes
Examples of such viruses:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurotropic_virus#Examples
Influenza
I know its unlikely I'd die if I contracted but if it left me with significant long term health problems, that's what keeps me inside.
Blunted senses are the last thing on my mind with persistent nausea, dizziness, sweating buckets, and having to lean on the wall on the way to the kitchen.
Taste and smell loss happens with cold and flu as well, since they are also respiratory diseases: [1]
> The exact mechanism behind post-viral anosmia [smell/taste loss] isn’t yet understood, but it is clear that the various viruses that cause the common cold, including flu, somehow damage and interfere with the olfactory epithelium
Let's not get carried away with the Covid fear hysteria. This is just an example of a risk that already existed that was never on society's collective radar.
Moreover, it's only been a few weeks or months. It's entirely likely that the taste/smell loss is temporary.
[1] https://www.fifthsense.org.uk/post-viral-olfactory-loss/
> Out of 417 patients who suffered mild to moderate forms of Covid-19 in Europe, 88% and 86% reported taste and smell dysfunctions, respectively, according to a study published in April in the European Archives of Oto-Rhino-Laryngology.
> Most patients said they couldn’t taste or smell even after other symptoms were gone. Preliminary data showed at least a quarter of people regained their ability to taste and smell within two weeks of other symptoms dissipating. The study said long-term data are needed to assess how long this can last in people who didn’t report an improvement.
Right here it is saying that about 25% of patients recover their senses of taste and smell. That means that probably 75% do not. The article spends the entire rest of its word count on explaining the terrible effects this has on those people.
Can you explain to me how that would be considered "hysteria" given how contagious this disease is? That just seems utterly dismissive of these peoples' suffering to me.
I don't doubt for a second the suffering of those affected by anosmia, or that it can be an effect of COVID-19. But I do doubt that the anosmia rate, and especially the rate of anosmia persisting long after other symptoms subside, is as high worldwide as it was in this one quite small cohort.
You know that the olfactory nerve is a cranial nerve, it's actually part of the brain. Anything neurotropic should be cause for extreme caution.
From there I went to visit my grandpa, in the hospital, after having a heart attack last week. He is 98. He sees me with the mask, tell me he don't ever follow orders, didn't even follow the Nazis orders. I tell him I wear the mask because I actually believe the situation is dangerous, he looked at me as if I said the weirdest possible thing.