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Comment by nsajko | Hacker News Reader

> Why in the fuck is dialog an optional dependency?

Not all people who use netctl want wifi-menu.

> it isn't mentioned anywhere in the documentation

It sure is. https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Installation_guide -> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Network_configuration -> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Netctl And there on the top of the netctl page it lists in a table dialog as a dependency of wifi-menu.

> Which sort of ties into my next problem which is that Arch simply isn't opinionated enough.

Maybe, but not all people have the same opinions...

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Arch Wiki changed a lot over years, entire install was one page http://web.archive.org/web/20080517121811/http://wiki.archli... (and grass was greener):

> Don't worry about getting all the packages you want - you can easily install more of them once the basic system boots by itself. The only exception to this rule is installing any packages you need for setting up internet connectivity. These packages usually are:

> dhcpcd

> wvdial

I had fresh install recently, rebooted three times in LiveUSB to pick wifi-menu, wpa_supplicant, dialog (rechecked with pacman -Qe). That's fine, I still use Arch. And it is good Manjaro provides another set of defaults.

> DON'T PANIC!

> The Arch Linux system is assembled by the user, from the shell, using basic command line tools. This is The Arch Way.

I miss it much http://web.archive.org/web/20080720082349/http://wiki.archli...

Please tell me you're fucking joking. You can't be serious. This ties into one of my other comments about how god awful the documentation is for beginners (or even intermediates) after scrapping the beginner's guide.

> Maybe, but not all people have the same opinions...

Yes. And that's fucking fine. Arch Linux isn't opinionated. Which is great, but not what I (or others) might be looking for in a distro.

Installing Gentoo is super simple. It only takes three commands to install Gentoo.

# cfdisk /dev/hda && mkfs.xfs /dev/hda1 && mount /dev/hda1 /mnt/gentoo/ && chroot /mnt/gentoo/ && env-update && . /etc/profile && emerge sync && cd /usr/portage && scripts/bootsrap.sh && emerge system && emerge vim && vi /etc/fstab && emerge gentoo-dev-sources && cd /usr/src/linux && make menuconfig && make install modules_install && emerge gnome mozilla-firefox openoffice && emerge grub && cp /boot/grub/grub.conf.samp le /boot/grub/grub.conf && vi /boot/grub/grub.conf && grub && init 6

That's the first one... http://bash.org/?464385

On the other hand, it’s the RTFM approach of Arch documentation that forced me and others I know to actually learn Linux, and step up from beginner use to power user status.

Sure, if you want to remain a Linux beginner forever, the Arch docs would be terrible.

This whole thread started from “ I just want an OS, not a hobby”. So, no thanks.

Well, my point was just that yes, Arch takes longer to install, and requires work, but it doesn't become a "hobby" _after_ that. Then people got into a flame war about how hard it is to install, which it is, and I freely acknowledge. :shrug:

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