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>> The sheer look of glee and pride when he gives a tour of all the automation around his base is infectious, and although he doesn't share my amazement at my conclusion, I can't help but think that he's already doing what most engineers I work with do every day, and he doesn't even realize it.

One reason why I can't really get into Factorio. It's too much like work.

The funny thing is I do code at home, for fun, in my free time- or I used to when I had a clear line demarcating my "free time" from work time (I do AI research and I mostly work from home, so most of the time I'm working on something that I really have to work on). But Factorio is just ... too much like work.

... dah, I can't explain it :)

I understand what you mean. While I'm a Factorio fan I felt this way about the graphical-programming zachlike SpaceChem. Too much like work.

I approached Factorio like MineCraft but with the boring stuff automated.

To have fun in a game like Factorio, just mess around - you don't need to make a perfect factory, or compete with your friend.

> ... people that would have loved to get their hands dirty with micro-controllers, soldering, programming and all the other stuff that could help them solve real world problems, but they were just never given the chance

Anecdotally, this was _almost_ me. I ended up going to university to study CS much later in my life than most people, and only because of a fortunate meeting with someone who was from that kind of background and 'guessed' I would be into it, and if I didn't, who knows what crappy dead-end job I would've ended up in.

How lucky I am to have 'made it' into a career I enjoy, and how many other people are out there who would love to have this opportunity, but instead are working in dull, menial jobs, just like I was before uni, is something I think about often.

I'm not sure how we get more people involved. There are 'STEM ambassador' (https://www.stem.org.uk/stem-ambassadors) roles in the UK. I'm not sure of their efficacy.

There's a wonderful initiative in Suffolk, East of England, run by somebody I knew many years ago. Basically it's an educational club and community interest charity run/founded by a Matthew Applegate to teach kids and young people across Suffolk (I think there were also talks of expanding it to Norfolk.) all sorts of tech things like robotics, programming, game design electronics, and probably more now.

I don't know what it is about his style of teaching but he completely changed my view of IT and the IT industry. Before then, my main tech knowledge was from the at the time terrible exposure you got in rural schools back in the 2000s and taking electronics apart to try and see how they worked. I thought programming was way beyond me as I didn't do well at all in school and had major self esteem issues as a kid. Matt is one of the key reasons I gained a serious interest in technology and has helped probably thousands more like me. He showed me all it takes to learn anything is time, effort, and a healthy dose of curiousity.

Maybe other educators could reach out to him and ask how he does things differently? I'd love to see things like this crop up nationwide, I feel it'd seriously change the knowledge base of tech issues for future generations.

Relevant Links https://twitter.com/CCCSuffolk https://twitter.com/CCCCFSuffolk https://twitter.com/Pixelh8 (Matt's Twitter.) creativecomputingclub.com (Website appears down for maintenance time of writing.) https://www.linkedin.com/organization-guest/company/creative...

God, yes, all the wasted potential out there hurts my soul.

They're having fun and learning. I think it's OK.

In cases where the bulk of their time is wasted on a boring job when they could be learning and having fun all the time on something impactful, no that's not OK.

I think a major difference between most games and real problem solving at work is that the environment is massively simplified and a lot of wrinkles when dealing with the real world are ironed out. In most games you can just relax and not think too hard, I would say, and reap massive rewards, while in real life, rewards come in much more intangible forms after much harder struggling.

This could also explain why many would rather just play games than solve real-world problems when they come home from work. It requires a bit of discipline, desire and resolve I would say. But one should also realize that the rewards of actually going out to solve real-world problems and interact with real people are so much sweeter than the virtual rewards you earn in simplified and idealized games, in many aspects. I would also say that while many don't do it at home, there are still many people that do, and do an amazing job at it.

Maybe LabView would be a good way to get Factorio players into programming. The model is very similar: components laid out on a 2d grid, connected by pipes that transmit values.

I got into programming with LabView.

I've played Factorio in the past and am playing Satisfactorio right now. I generally don't code at home or have any side projects.

Let's do some introspection as to why I prefer playing these games over coding at work:

1. Games are designed in a way, that speaks to intrinsic human values. For instance, in Factorio, the local Fauna wants to kill me. I have to build and design my base accordingly or will I'll perish. My work in contrast, is far removed from intrinsic human values.

2. Games are designed to be accessible, with every step yielding rewards right away.

2.1. Coding in an enterprise environment is full of complex task, which have to be broken down first.

2.2. Games such as Factorio increase complexity of task later on, but you always utilize mechanics you've already mastered.

2.3. Task in enterprise environments tend to always require learning new knowledge first (business domain, existing code base etc.) before being able to solve it.

2.4. Games allow me to start from scratch. Existing code bases, which I didn't build myself, require me to invest quit some time before I can even start achieving my task.

2.5. Often, these existing code bases require me to learn new frameworks. Games teach new skills/tools in seconds or minutes. Frameworks tend to require hours or days to digest.

3. Games provide visual feedback. My labor results in visible feedback inside the (virtual) world. Accomplishing a coding task tends to not result in any feedback (I do mostly backend). If there is feedback, it's normally in text form and of negative format (error logs).

4. In general, feedback in games is unambiguous, clearly tells you what is happening. No debugging. No frustration.

When I actually know everything that is required to solve a task and can concentrate on achieving the task in the best way, that's the moment I'm having fun. But normally, there is so much I don't know, tools I can use but have not mastered, that it feels like a mess. Even if you believe you have everything, reality tends throw some roadblocks along the way.

Now, why don't I code at home and do side projects?

That's in my first point. There is just nothing I could use coding for that solves problems I care about (intrinsic human goals). Even if I know how to write the next Facebook, I wouldn't do it because I really don't care. Well, there are some code solvable things I consider interesting, but they are out of scope in terms of my resources and abilities. Also, the way along would properly still suck for the most part, once it gets serious.

Right now, I'm learning some Math in my free time. Quit enjoyable, gives me new insights in how everything works. I tend not to have that feeling why learning new frameworks / programming languages. New insights are pleasurable to me, tech stuff just doesn't tell me anything interesting about the world.

Maybe some of you who don't feel the same can understand people like me a bit better (not saying that all non side project people have the same reasons).