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Comment by rich_sasha | Hacker News Reader

...and yet, how popular are Linux phones and laptops compared to Apple?

The list is of course right (perhaps up to fine details) but misses the point. Apple products, and same for Android, are utterly usable without a degree in Linuxology. You don't shake in trepidation whenever you do an upgrade. You also don't just install random stuff from enormous Git repos that cannot possibly be scrutinised for security details. You don't get core dumps just because you selected an exotic option in config.

I like Linux, but I don't have 10 hrs/week just to keep it running. It's just not an option, and Apple products will do.

Having been forced to use Microsoft products again recently, I think the analogy doesn't extend to Windows though. I'd take Linux products over MS any time. Windows is awful.

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> You don't shake in trepidation whenever you do an upgrade.

I really don't know a lot of people who feel confident doing a macOS update. The thing borks everything so often it's not even a meme, just a fact of life so people I know tend to be super careful with it and only update when the apps they use start dropping compatibility for older OSXes (or when they buy a new mac :-)).

People usually delay updating because it requires a /really/ long time. My Mac Pro (2013, trashcan) takes upwards of an hour for a point release.

I don't really have an hour to dick around during working hours and I don't want to leave my machine on overnight (or if I do it's because I want it to be doing something). So I almost never update.

IME it doesn't break as often as Windows; but Linux is "best" here, updates are in the single-digit minutes.

Sorry, but this is just not adding anything. I have run fleets of Macs before and borked installs are rare to say the least. To suggest it’s a meme is simply ridiculous. As to app compatibility, similar things happen on Linux. From years of experience managing servers, unmet dependencies with package managers and unsupported/no-longer supported libraries are a daily fact of life.

I’m not going to deny there are issues with the Mac (or iOS) platform, there clearly are, but let’s keep it honest. While we’re at it, let’s keep it honest about other platforms too.

To your anecdote, I am mac os user for about 8 years now. I blindly update whenever there is an update notification without reservation. Not a single issue encountered in all these years. I am sure there are legions of users like me.

Have multiple macs and use them for both personal and work use.

> You don't shake in trepidation whenever you do an upgrade. You also don't just install random stuff from enormous Git repos

Correct, you don't. LTS releases are good for at least 5 years, so you install it, tick the box for automatic updates and don't worry about anything for years. Then when the next LTS is out, you wait a few months, then click upgrade and drink a coffee. Time invested: 1 hr/5 years.

> ...and yet, how popular are Linux phones and laptops compared to Apple?

Linux phones are about 3x more popular.

https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/worldwide

Android isn’t really Linux, in that the commodity open source kernel is wrapped by proprietary value added software maintained by an army of highly paid professionals. You could swap out the kernel and no user would notice, or care.

> Android isn’t really Linux, in that the commodity open source kernel is wrapped by proprietary value added software maintained by an army of highly paid professionals.

Isn't that true for all popular distros?

Android IS an Linux definitely but not GNU/Linux.

Don’t forget security. Linux laptops are a gaping hole compared to my MacBook Pro.

I really despise some of the open source crusaders that look the other way when things don’t fit their narrative.

Common tools such as Postgres, Swift, Python, OpenSSH, billion other pieces of open software that are funded by the same companies that this article shits on.

There is a place for proprietary software in the society. And there is a place for open source software in the society.

Matlab is amazing even though it’s closed source. When I have a fricking Jet Engine hoisted up on a test stand and I discover some bug in the instrumentation Matlab toolbox, I can call them and speak to an engineer directly in about 45 seconds. We are not a 10 people company. We have billions on the line. And, $13k a year in licensing proprietary software with instant support is fine. It gets the job done. Docs are unbelievably comprehensive.

I love open source software and truly see value in it. But if something is closed source but has proven track record, I’m fine with it.

Good luck trying to convince Bloomberg Terminal to release their source code.

Let's be very clear, this is from gnu.org, so this is not "open source crusaders", this is "free software zealots". There are no compromises when it comes to Free Software, no pragmatism and no leeway for choices to be made that serve a purpose if they reduce the freedom of the software.

I am not explicitly criticising GNU/FSF, but I think it's important to remember that they are always going to take the most extreme view on these matters, because that's why those projects exist.

(personally I see FSF/RMS as a lighthouse. I find their presence useful for navigation, but I don't necessarily want to get too close to them ;)

It provokes me so much. This is a horrible organization and a message for the open source community.

MIT license > GPL which is a draconian piece of work.

Linux needs a pragmatic, less asshole, more inclusive and approachable community.

GNU guys aren’t helping.

free software people will rewrite proprietary software under a free and open source license. Open source people will rewrite free software licensed software under a open source license. From a pragmatic perspective, I rather pick the former than the later, and the practical benefits are noticeable when going from a proprietary software to an free and open source version, but going from GPL to MIT has no meaningful impact on my ability to use the program.

Talking about pragmatism, why do a weather app developers feel the need to get permission to access to my contact list, sms, my web browser history, and so on? It seems clear that regardless of what kind of software a developer, community or company do, there are political aspects that pushes away pragmatism. Simple programs that do a practical job and nothing else should be the norm, but there seems to always be a will to push it away from that.

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