Hacker News Reader

Comment by unexpected | Hacker News Reader

Does anyone think RIM would be a prime acquisition candidate?

I know it sounds crazy, but hear me out - what if Microsoft bought RIM?

WP7 hasn't gained any traction, RIM seems lost in the weeds - the could merge the two entities and ring-fence the entire enterprise market. MS could convince enterprises to buy their phones/tablets/etc and achieve "full synergies" with their other enterprise applications.

View on HN

I believe the response I had to Microsoft and Nokia getting together was something to the effect of "merging two entities that don't Get It together does not generally produce one that Gets It." I'd say the same thing here.

If someone is going to buy RIM and actually make something of it, it would have to be a company than Gets It. All the companies that Get It already seem to be facing the problem of having more success than they know what to do with. I don't see how acquiring RIM would solve any of their problems. But I'd love to hear about those problems if you can explain them.

Both RIM and Microsoft "get" the Enterprise. This matchup makes sense for both of them.

I didn't feel that it made sense when RIM was committed to a Java-only vision, but now that they're whoring themselves out to anybody with an app platform and they hung their existing base of Java devs out to dry, it makes a lot more sense for them to jump in bed with Microsoft.

"Both RIM and Microsoft "get" the Enterprise. This matchup makes sense for both of them"

Based on what? I'd argue that they "got" enterprise, but are in the process of losing it. Are a very cruse measure, what about share price over time? Or units shipped? or...?

Apparently Microsoft wants to target WM7 at consumers. They've done very little to integrate WM7 with Windows Server -- in fact WM7 is a big step backwards in this respect compared to WM6. I think you're right that going after the enterprise market would have made a lot more sense but for whatever reason Microsoft is still in denial about losing their death grip on the consumer market and as a result squander opportunities to succeed in markets they already own. As for RIM I think their enterprise credibility isn't what it used to be. Apple in particular, and Android to a lesser degree, have surpassed them in many ways. Not so much on the device management side, which is somewhat trivial on these devices anyway, but more so on pure functionality. There are just so many things you can't do on the latest & greatest BlackBerry. It's great you can manage the hell out of the device but the gap in functionality is massive these days. The only reason RIM hasn't totally imploded is that BlackBerries are dirt cheap which makes up for the lack of functionality. This isn't really sustainable.

> The only reason RIM hasn't totally imploded is that BlackBerries are dirt cheap which makes up for the lack of functionality.

I was looking for a new phone for company use a few weeks ago. The BlackBerry Torch was the only one in the store that wasn't included free with any of their longer price plans. In fact, I would have had to pay hundreds of pounds to get one, in addition to the usual multi-year contract tie-in.

I laughed and bought a £15 Nokia and a pay-monthly plan with no tie-in, because as a business user, what matters most to me is having a separate number from my personal mobile and a separate allowance of minutes/texts/etc. that I can expense. Smart phones are all very nice, but if you have a laptop and mobile broadband with you most of the time on business trips anyway, also mostly just a cute gimmick. (That goes for the other mobile OSes as well, of course, but at least they don't insult me by asking me to pay more for their device than I can pay for a real computer. If I were willing to accept a two-year tie-in, I might have picked up an Android phone.)

It is hard to imagine that MS will have any appetite for an acquisition in this space until they have digested the Nokia partnership.

It is an interesting point however because we may soon find that the writing is on the wall for RIM just like it was for Nokia. The question is, when will RIM's 'burning platform' moment be? And more importantly, if the bottom does fall out from their market share dramatically, where will they turn?

It might be that Microsoft is in no mood for an acquisition but RIM will be forced to make them an offer so good they can't refuse. The lean towards Android with their tablet offering is pretty interesting however so one might well wonder if they are actually starting the first step of hedging their bets in the other direction.

Interesting times ...

How well has Microsoft's purchase of Danger worked out for them? Why do you think it would work any better if they bought RIM?

The Danger acquisition didn't really make sense from an engineering perspective - the Sidekick was a great phone - 5 years ago.

MS doesn't have the greatest track record with consumer products (Xbox not withstanding).

They OWN the enterprise. While I'm not sure the resulting products would be all that great (though everyone usually has great things to say about Windows 7 Mobile), it would be an easy sell to an enterprise.

Chinks in the apple/android armor:

1) Right now, enterprise applications have to go through the App Store (for both devices). It would be pretty powerful for enterprise to be able to push their own applications at their leisure to their phones

2) Existing tie-in to blackberry servers.

3) Android phones irritate me b/c you need a gmail address to even set it up. This is just an additional requirement for enterprise phones that shouldn't even be there.

4) Dev tools that people are familiar with. Objective C experience is harder to find that C#/.NET experience (Android is wash here with Java).

"1) Right now, enterprise applications have to go through the App Store (for both devices). It would be pretty powerful for enterprise to be able to push their own applications at their leisure to their phones"

This isn't true for iOS.

On iOS, enterprise managed phones can absolutely push out their own apps and bypass the App Store:

http://www.apple.com/iphone/business/apps/in-house/resources...

And Android phones which aren't third-party app locked by the carriers (so no ATT phones) can already install any app the user wants. It doesn't look like enterprise phone management for Android can "push out an app" though.

> "4) Dev tools that people are familiar with."

This is a nice-to-have, and has IMO no bearing on the success of a platform. How many devs knew Obj-C well before the iPhone SDK came out? How many do now?

It's a bitter pill for developers to swallow, but the truth is that consumers drive platform adoption, and developers will learn whatever it takes to have a crack at the goldmine. Nokia went well out of its way to be dev-friendly, but couldn't produce a platform consumers wanted. Having a solid dev platform that's easy to use is good, but makes little difference when nobody's wielding your phone in the first place.

> "2) Existing tie-in to blackberry servers."

Doesn't last forever. The consumer preference for iOS and Android device is so strong that enterprises are starting to decouple themselves from BB enterprise servers. There's a difference between the bitchings of rank and file engineers and the CEO being unable to use the new fancy sexy device because IT doesn't support it. One gets more change than the other, sadly.

The tie-in to RIM's proprietary servers is a stopgap at best. Without it RIM would be sinking far more rapidly than they already are. It is an advantage that is shrinking and won't last for much longer.

Acquisition? No, not at a $30B price.

but if Microsoft got really bold, they could merge with RIM, and have Nokia build the phones.

Definitely won't happen at the current valuation (~30B) of RIM.

Isn't that what Microsoft is trying to do with its Nokia partnership?

Up until the Nokia partnership, I though RIM would be a good pickup for Microsoft. Both are strong in the enterprise and could do a lot of common sales. Integrating Blackberry's message services with Exchange would provide a pretty good solution for enterprise.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com