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Comment by 9nGQluzmnq3M | Hacker News Reader

Hotness is relative though: they may not "dial it up" by Indian standards, but chili still makes its way into almost everything. A Russian colleague of mine visiting Delhi, not generally regarded as a hotbed of hotness, found virtually everything except dal makhani inedibly spicy -- because she was used to Russian food, where chilis traditionally don't feature at all.

India is also one of the few places I've been to where chilis are regularly used for breakfast dishes and even drinks like aam ka panna (spicy green mango juice).

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Sure but did she find it spicy as in "having copious amounts of spice" or spicy as "a taste similar to food that is of a high temperature" or spicy as in "off-gassing something that irritates one's nasal passages" (I don't really consider this last one "spicy" or "hot" but many people do so I'm including it)?

To reply that "hotness is relative" without clarifying which usage of the word you mean or implying that your friend in the anecdote even made that clarification is exactly what the person you are replying to is complaining about.

This limitation of colloquial English where the word "spicy" is overloaded to refer to all three axis of "spicy" at the same time and hot is also (though less frequently) overloaded in the same manner is exactly what we're discussing.

You can have something that's not very "hot" be very "spicy" on one of the other two axis. Try eating a tablespoon of cinnamon or that Chinese mustard that comes with takeout.

European food that is "spicy" on one axis but nearly zero on the other two is rare hence why this overloading exists and isn't really a problem when discussing food from anywhere that doesn't have a rainy season.

Can’t speak for the rest of the anglosphere, but in the US, when someone says “spicy”, they mean “this has too much capsaicin”. If someone were referring to the strength of the taste, they would probably just say “I don’t like this flavor”, or as a stretch, “the spices in this dish are too strong”. Not sure what point you’re making here. I assure you, even though there may not be dedicated words for them, English speakers are quite able to articulate the differences between the different categories of plants that are added to food to make it taste better.

No, food can be spicy without being hot. The OPs point I believe is that hot and spicy are often incorrectly used interchangeably. Dishes with cinnamon, cardamon, cloves, nutmeg, star anise, cardomom could all be considered "spicy" but without a component that specifically adds heat(chili seeds, wasabi, horseradish, tobasco) they would not be hot.

There are also many chili peppers that are sweet and mild - Ancho Chiles, Poblanos, Aji Panca being examples. There are also many Indian regional cuisines that are spicy but not hot - Punjabi and West Bengal come to mind.

I don't think it's incorrect per se to uses spicy and hot interchangeably. It's just maybe not common to all dialects of English. Where I'm from nobody would refer to a dish flavored with your first list as spicy.

No cinnamon, cardamon, cloves, nutmeg, star anise are ingredients common to every spice rack and every grocery store's spice aisle in the English speaking world. Even one of Starbucks most popular drinks is a "Spiced Pumpkin Latte" which consists of pumpkin, cinnamon, nutmeg and clove, served over ice. During the European Age of Discovery the "Spice Island" i.e the Molucas in what is now Indonesia were so important because they were the source of nutmeg and cloves. Spice is added to food for either flavor or aroma. Heat is a sensation, its felt. Lastly Capsaicin - the compound in the ribs and oil of peppers doesn't add flavor just a sensation. There is no such thing as a salty, sweet or bitter heat. And it's not just English, in Spanish something that had heat such as a hot salsa would be considered "piquante" but not spicy.

Cinnamon, cardamon, cloves, nutmeg and star anise are undoubtedly spices. Didn't mean to suggest otherwise.

However, a dish incorporating them isn't usually referred to as spicy in my experience. Unless it also contains chili pepper.

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