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Comment by mancerayder | Hacker News Reader

I think laying out the various dimensions like this is the right approach. There are also factors such as, what about cracking jokes or otherwise having pleasant non work conversations at work. Zoom doesn't cut it. Slack surely not. Next, the outsourcability of our work may not be ideal for those in high rent, expensive real estate areas. We'll be competing with the cheap, or will need to move.

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Oh yeah, nothing like being forced to commute for several hours every week so I can hear my coworkers' jokes.

I don't think that was his point. His point is that it's hard to build relationships when no one ever sees each other. Relationships are extremely important in the business setting and it's something the Aspergers inclined tech crowd has a little bit of a difficult time grasping.

Relationships are really important outside the business setting too. Often much more important.

Something that a lot of people in the business setting don't seem to understand.

My work friends are just that... work friends. I have to hide large swaths of my personal life from them and they don't usually stick around outside work. Work relationships suck.

Sure. OTOH, you don’t have to be either an Aspie or a Business A-Player Career Superhero to give a pragmatic nod to the fact that work is where many people, perhaps most, spend their waking hours. It’s only natural and eminently human that for a lot of them, that’s where their friendships and relationships will form and play out.

In my opinion, it’s all the more so if they live in one of the many nondescript suburban places of which Middle America comprises. Having little to come home to or go out to, with our bankrupt concept of civic space and the public realm, it’s all the more likely many of us will unconsciously look to work as the locus of social possibility. It’s not because we want to, it’s just the shape of the situation.

Totally agree. In my previous job our project team (Program Manager + project engineer, me) flies out to our biggest vendor every month to discuss production issues and development updates. This face time is critical in building the strong relationships and has proven its worth when prioritization or escalation is needed but not covered explicitly in the contract.

We grasp it, but we went into this career so that we would have to do the bare minimum of it.

You forget the conversation being responded to is a list of pros and cons of being in the office. I listed additional pros as having comraderie. It doesn't mean you need to be there. I just point out that for some of us, it makes working actually worth it, or at least feel a little more meaningful.

Ideally we WFH or come in as we see fit. If I'm the boss I'd say, aim to come in at least 3X a week if you don't live hours away. But some people just prefer to keep to themselves and simply purely work. More power to them, let that be an option too.

> There are also factors such as, what about cracking jokes or otherwise having pleasant non work conversations at work.

These things are mildly pleasant. But commuting is very unpleasant. Being interrupted all the time is unpleasant. Working with a dog on my lap is pleasant.

On the pleasant scale, remote wins hands down.

TBH, I do most of my "chat" through chat now anyway.

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