“MMA fighter claims that martial arts is not a waste of time and that other hobbies are.”
What’s the discussion to be had here? Just one biased talking head trying to raise the way he spends his free time above others.
What’s the discussion to be had here? Just one biased talking head trying to raise the way he spends his free time above others.
On a personal level as someone who has easily sunk probably ~20-30k hours (as measured from game timers over the years) into video games of all kinds of genres, I have to say nothing can come close to the enrichment or happiness I have experienced from practising martial arts.
There is something that compounds from simultaneously getting stronger and fitter while also learning a skill, all while being taught self-discipline and peace.
I have encountered meditation in kendo (mokuso), muay thai and taekwondo. (EDIT so the benefits associated with yoga can loosely also be conferred to a high quality martial arts school)
You can learn many lessons from videogames - my obsession with minmaxing and exploiting mechanics no doubt prepared me well for a kind of edge-case oriented software mindset. Games like DMC/MH/Dark Souls teach you patience. PvP games at a high level teach you about competition and mindreading/anticipation. Team based games can teach you communication and coordination.
But games are also extremely stimulating and the dopamine hit is too "cheap". There's also something to be said about incorporating your entire body into whatever hobby or exercise you do. The payoff is greater and isn't so easily substituted.
Your points are more well constructed than his, and I am not discrediting the merit of physical activity or mental health maintenance, just the idea that free time should be spent entirely on those things is a violation of the golden rule.
The claim was made that video games are (entirely) a waste of time.
Maybe I missed the reference about entirely avoiding? We all do things that are entirely useless. Giving them up entirely isn’t the point. Dialling them back if they’re too large a part of waking hours is.
> What’s the discussion to be had here? Just one biased talking head trying to raise the way he spends his free time above others.
Being good at killing people is very good skill to have if somebody else is trying to kill you.
Beat saber and DDR might be ok but the skill / coordination element isn't quite the same as learning various techniques well in a martial art (or sport like tennis/soccer)
I'd argue the coordination element is pretty high with beat saber. It requires rhythm, speed, and accuracy. The fact that I'm a juggler and still can't beat expert+ songs without practicing them repeatedly (and have only done so for a few) after several months of playing speaks to how quick, practiced, and coordinated you need to be. Definitely more of a workout as well. I also used to play DDR in high school and could beat every song in that game; but that was after many nights of playing for hours, drenched in sweat.
I don't think we actually believe that. We don't say that about something like heroin or masturbation.
Also, your future-self doesn't necessarily agree with that either. Give your future-self a say in how you spend you time today because they're the one who has to live with it.
"Time enjoyed while wasted wasn't time wasted!" tends to only be something present-you says to conveniently justify spending time in ways that will turn out to be unfulfilling with high opportunity costs.
If you want to say video games fall in the same category, I would argue video games are to heroin as caffeine is to amphetamine. Additionally, things that people get addicted to are not the issue, but rather the life around the things that people are addicted to are the issue. Just look at the use of cell phones in the contemporary world.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_Park
On future-self: My future-self already makes my decisions. If they choose to appreciate art (as video games are) on a Sunday or repair some electronics older than me, or go on a walk, none of those things are wastes of time. The mere supposition that they are is obnoxious.
That’s not been my experience. From what I’ve seen, gamers insult anyone and everyone who doesn’t fit in with them. They also insult each other as a form of bonding, though the tone is way less nasty than the one they reserve for outsiders.
There have been many public scandals on this topic, sometimes with Twitch even banning these streamers. Try spending some time in the chat of popular Twitch gaming streamers. You’ll see some absolutely toxic behaviour. I’m honestly surprised that people on HN would be unaware of this stuff.
Overall my experience matches yours, people who outwardly identify as "gamers" are often toxic individuals, certainly more so on average than people who don't express that group identity.
Multiplayer games often have very toxic or extremely toxic communities and players regardless, some more than others (e.g. CS:GO or GTA:Online have absurdly toxic playerbases, other titles less so).