Hacker News Reader

Comment by squarefoot | Hacker News Reader

That is not the problem. I'm not a US citizen, but let's pretend I am; as a normal citizen (ie, not a politician or high profile important person) would I be more concerned about my personal data being sent to a foreign country who doesn't know me, my family, my job, and very likely will never give a damn about what i think, or rather my own government who has all interests to know what I think, especially during protests? I have zero trust in Chinese government, but if I had to choose, even as the European citizen I am (not high profile, not employed in critical areas etc.), I'd rather send my data to China than to my own government.

View on HN

Exactly, I'd be much more concerned about my personal data going to a government that has agency over me than the one that doesn't. The only time I'd have to worry about Chinese government having my data would be if I went to China. On the other hand, as a US citizen I could be dragged into an unmarked van by DHS goons any time based on the data US government collects on me.

In a globalized world, it’s a mistake to assume that China (or any foreign power, for that matter) has no agency over or interest in you. Especially if you are, for example, someone with even a mediocrum of power or access that they want (for example, if you’re a system administrator for a company whose secrets they want).

If they have enough leverage over you (or access through you to your secure systems), they will use it.

Yet, it's obvious that your own government has the most agency over you. And when your own government starts putting shock troops on the streets and abducting people in unmarked vans, you might want to reconsider how much information you want to share with it.

China doesn't care about you because you're not a good target, you want to know who is a good Target? Chinese people living in your country, they can be blackmailed into doing things against the interests of your government.

You make it sound like you are forced to download the app at gunpoint.

In order to exist as functional part of modern society you pretty much have to be on at least a couple apps that exfiltrate all your data and metadata. Sure you can DIY everything but that comes with a huge time cost that most simply cannot afford.

The point out preferring one's data in the hands of a regime that doesn't have jurisdiction to send jack booted thugs to kick in one's door still stands.

> In order to exist as functional part of modern society you pretty much have to be on at least a couple apps that exfiltrate all your data and metadata.

I think you vastly overestimate 1) how much a functional human in modern society actually needs any of this garbage and 2) how much of that data and metadata is meaningful in regards to someone's privacy.

Ah sorry, that wasn't my intention, I don't even use smartphones or social media, smartTVs or closed source operating systems/software (1).

My point was, if I have to be concerned about privacy (in fact I actually am, see above) why should I fear about a foreign government while my own one is without any doubt more interested in knowing what I think? Of course should one day I become an important public figure, or a key person in some critical environment, all the data about me would suddenly become gold; that's a very valid point by another commenter. Of course my post was from the point of view of someone who doesn't plan, nor could even choose, to become one anytime soon.

(1) hence my comments where very often I argue about closed device drivers and blobs, which are the best possible place for planting spyware.

> I don't even use smartphones or social media

you just posted this to a social media site

Well, non those social media sites. USENET is also a social media for that matter, though I think nobody would call it as such.

That is extremely simplistic thinking.

For a moment think: your data goes to China. China learns over the years about you, including something that can be used against you. At some point in future you are in a position at a company or have a government position where China has an interest in you, at that time it can use the data collected over the years to compromise you.

If you think that will never be the case, let’s go further, what about your spouse or even further your kids when they grow up.

Governments play the long game.

You have a valid point. One's own government is almost always more of a threat that another country's government.

But I think it's possible you aren't thinking of all the contingencies that are created by a foreign government having info about people in this country.

unless you happened to criticize the chinese govt and travelled via hong kong at a later date.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com