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Comment by acemarke | Hacker News Reader

Two, because I've spent the last 9+ years of my career working on the same couple apps :)

But both were pretty complex - true SPAs, no routing, lots of complex client-side state manipulation going on.

In fact, the first one is actually what inspired everything that I showed in my "Practical Redux" blog tutorial series, since I couldn't show off work stuff publicly.

But hey, if that list of stuff I've done isn't good enough for you, apparently no one in this world qualifies as an "expert" in any topic :)

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You've worked on two apps. Besides that you've been a part of the evangelist ecosystem for a tremendously simple framework. You are not what I could call an expert in using Redux.

You are almost certainly an expert in Redux's internals but that's not what we're discussing. In fact the root of the problem is exactly that you've conflated one for the other.

I know I'm feeding a troll here, so last response.

I've looked at hundreds of other codebases, ranging from beginner apps to complex enterprise-level apps. I've talked to thousands of people who are using Redux in many, _many_ different ways, and catalogued hundreds of libraries people have made to add on to Redux. I _know_ how people are using Redux in practice, and what kinds of problems they're running into.

I'm quite serious when I say I'd like you to write up an issue with some specific concrete feedback listing your concerns with how we currently teach Redux and recommend people use it, especially since I'm working on an ongoing revamp of our core docs. I obviously can't guarantee any _changes_, but I'm very interested in having substantive discussions in a more suitable venue than HN comments.

Whether or not you choose to take me up on that is up to you.

I'm not trolling you, I'm exhorting you to stop pushing extra frameworks for things that there should not be frameworks for.

The issue is not that one or another approach is always better, it's that the entire act of lobbing another framework onto the stack that a dev has to familiarize themselves with only adds to the confusion.

Rails worked because it contained everything in one package. The success of that model poisoned everybody's mind into believing there had to be "opinionated" frameworks to manage other (extremely simple) frameworks and has contributed greatly to the mire of misdirection that is modern front end development.

It's a case of not even wrong.

Simplify. Less is more.

The guy just likes to larp as a writer, so it’s not a surprise that he’s loving the discourse. Just ignore him —- He’s massively coping for his front-end shortcomings.

If you gave actual technical arguments instead of just attacking the credentials of a person you'd actually contribute to the discussion at hand. As is, you seem to have a pretty bad day …

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