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Comment by teruakohatu | Hacker News Reader

> - Business-vs-talent returns: most riders earn minimum wage.

Where so you get this from?

There is a mandated minimum that is around the median salary of my country, so much higher than minimum wage of most countries.

New young riders in the UCI Pro Tour level reportedly get a fair bit more than the minimum, on the Tour they are not usually fielding a more experienced team and earn more. If they prove themselves the earnings go up fast.

Cycling pays little compared to basketball, football etc. but they are well paid compared to the general population at Tour level.

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It's not just the salary. World tour level pro cyclists usually receive free room and board during the season. Even the domestiques get some appearance fees from sponsors. And they're given extra equipment at the end of the season which they can sell for cash. For a young guy without a lot of commitments it's a pretty good deal.

If he read the article it says the mandated minimum wage for a rider is $35,000, but most riders make more than that.

You might have a hard time living in say California on that wage but in parts of rural Europe you could get by comfortably. You definitely could in Michigan.

That depends on how much of the work related expenses are handled by the team. If they have to pay for their own travel, that'd be several grand right there. Plus, it wouldn't be surprising if the team mandates where you live.

How can you get by comfortably in Michigan with a $35k income when health insurance deductibles are $5k+ and out of pocket maximums are $6k to $8k and premiums are ~$2.5k+ per year?

Plus federal income, FICA, state income, sales taxes, and Michigan’s famously high car insurance prices? Add on saving for retirement / emergency healthcare expenses.

Doesn’t leave much for a comfortable day to day life, especially if you have or intend to support a family.

You understand only a small percentage of insured get anywhere near their deductibles in any year let alone their out of pocket maximums?

Private Insurance is there to prevent you from losing your home or racking up a massive debt, not pay for every single medical expense.

Childbirth will get you there in no time. My under 1 year old had to go to doctor 3 times for various normal infections from daycare in February this year and it cost $850, plus $80 for a state mandated lead test that I just got a bill for.

The point is $35k per year gives you no breathing room, and certainly doesn’t quality as comfortable. Even for single young people in great health, they can’t build any wealth and they will lose whatever they do get due to various health/auto/etc issues that come up.

Sure but $35K a year is fine for a young man looking to start a career in competitive cycling. He doesn’t need to save his way to build wealth, his role is a lottery ticket itself, if he moves up he’ll make ten times as much, if he doesn’t he quits after four or five years and gets a “real job”.

> You understand only a small percentage of insured get anywhere near their deductibles in any year let alone their out of pocket maximums?

A significant minority of the insured (and close to a majority, in the Bay Area) have HMOs, which are mostly no-deductible.

These athletes are young men. They might still be living at home. The team takes care of their health insurance.

If they're 22 and married with two kids with their partner not working yes it would be tough. However the average income in Detroit is less than $30,000.

My intention is to point out that people with average incomes do not live “comfortably”.

What is your definition of comfortable? Because if 20 year old mostly single people earning the average income isn't it, then I'm not sure your expectation is realistic. Even if you redistribute all income equally, the average isn't going to change.

I do think income inequality is a problem, however.

60% of humanity doesn't have indoor plumbing. The bottom quintile in America is living pretty comfortably compared to most.

I don't know if you're American, but if you are, comparing America to the world average is comparing apples to oranges.

Most of the world has been occupied or has had wars fought on its territory in the past 150 years. Most of the world lives in a country that has a neighboring country of similar heft, and usually much bigger, that interferes with local politics much more than the US has ever had foreign intervention. Most of the world lives in a country which isn't basically an entire continent's worth of resources. Most of the world doesn't live in a country where per capita incomes are among the top 10% in the world and the middle + upper classes are 200+ million strong.

I dunno, I made less than that when I was young and I was happy and had enough money to drink, go out once a week, etc. Felt pretty comfortable to me.

I lived in Africa a couple years as well, and Americans have such a distorted sense of what poverty is. Travel to other places and gain some perspective.

“The team takes care of their health insurance.”

They better do. Professional cycling is a dangerous sport. This year, stage 1 saw a crash of 30-ish riders that broke a rider’s kneecap (he finished the stage, but didn’t start for stage 2), the thigh bone of another (happened so close to the finish line that he would be allowed to start stage 2, but he didn’t), broke a few ribs of and gave a pulmonary contusion to a third rider (he is still in the race, and hopes to contribute to his team’s success in the later stages), gave a fourth one an elbow injury (he hit a spectator taking a photograph. He tried staying in the race for about a week, but eventually retired)

There also already were a few broken collarbones in week 1. Add in a zillion abrasions.

Salaries work a little differently for pro athletes: they're not just earning money to live off now, but they also need to save up for when their career inevitably ends and they don't have any other skill to fall back on.

Seen in that light, $35,000 isn't much.

There are options for pro athletes after their athletic career, as trainers, speakers, organizers of amateur events, etc.

For the major US pro sports, some or all of their draft is from colleges in order to encourage post-secondary education and leave players with more options after their career. I'm not sure how many pro cyclists do college, but I knew some folks when I went to college who were fairly high amateur and I believe looking to go pro.

That's based on prize money. From TFA:

The first few individual finishers would do okay for themselves — but bottom-tier finishers would make more working in retail for 3 weeks than racing in one of the most prestigious cycling races in the world

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