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Comment by cameronfraser | Hacker News Reader

The lack of understanding of Leave No Trace by the general public is pretty astounding. Even among people who self identify as hikers. Lately there have been a lot of instances of people painting on rocks or painting rocks and leaving them out there as well as stacking stones for aesthetic reasons instead of a navigational aid. Both of these violate Leave No Trace but I've seen a lot of people flamed for bringing it up in casual hiking groups. Neither of these have as much environmental consequence as littering for example, but it is still an eyesore and a reminder of human civilization when one is trying to get away from it.

If you really want to get away from civilization then you should consider remote backpacking trips. Wilderness backpackers, in general, are strict followers of Leave No Trace and unless it is a super popular trail there won't be too many.

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I don't understand the painted rock thing. It's a new trend in my neighborhood and hiking trails around here. People paint "motivational" rocks and leave them for people to find. Things like "JOY" and "INSPIRE" etc, as well as "SMILE" etc etc etc.

I briefly considered painting "demotivational rocks" and leaving those around as a counter-prank but ruled it out after realizing I'd have to actually collect and paint the rocks, though it was an amusing thought for a few minutes!

LNT is too open to interpretation on some things. Personally, I don't mind painted rocks as long as they are hidden / turned upside down. I also don't mind cairn stones in backcountry paths. For me, it gives me a sense of belonging, but I can easily see how it would bother others and so I don't make them. But I also don't destroy them as others do.

I'm just pointing out that it's a fairly slippery slope for some on stacking stones at all.

We slipped down that slope long ago; stacking stones even as trail markers (“cairns”) is frequently prohibited in designated wilderness areas.

Eg.

> Do not build rock cairns or other trail markers

https://www.nps.gov/seki/planyourvisit/minimum-impact-restri...

I don't approve out of going out of your way to alter things but "Leave No Trace" and other Sierra Club-isms (yes I know they didn't come up with it) hinder people's enjoyment of the outdoors and taken to an extreme, which many organizations that own and operate trails do effectively gate keeps the outdoors. Sure hikers can pretty effectively practice it but anything with wheels is gonna wear in a trail and fishermen are gonna effect the brush where they access the water, kayakers are gonna effect the shoreline at the popular places to pull their boats out. These are all perfectly acceptable ways to enjoy the outdoors.

yes, i was climbing a couple days ago and some teenagers started stacking rocks right in the middle of the trail head for exiting the climbing area. i don't understand why stacking rocks is something anyone cares about.

Back in 2014, I was hiking through Alligator Falls in Queensland, AU with a friend. We probably bit off a bit more than we could chew and started an 18km hike at 2pm. When we were making our way back, we were lucky the moon was out and bright. We were afraid we might be lost or off trail, but luckily we saw and recognized this Rock Totem:

https://journeyofkhan.us/photo/rock-totem/

It kept us on the path and we thankfully made it back out to the car.

Well then it's a good thing you found an actual trail marker rock totem, and not something some teens decided to build that lead you into the middle of nowhere. Which is why this trend is pretty dangerous.

It looks cool in photos. And some people egotistically want to mark their territory, like wild animals.

less environmental impact if they would just pee on the existing trail markers then...

My theory on people stacking rocks is that many people new to the outdoors are inspired/overcome with a feeling of reverence and they do not know how to express it. deep down in their DNA something tells them to build an alter. Right or wrong the stack of rocks is an expression of their love for the place.

that would only make sense if there were stacked rocks everywhere since people have been going into the wilderness for literally all of history. its because these people see it on instagram and want to do it themselves.

If you're gonna be all snooty about LNT going as far as admonishing cairns, then hiking trails are aren't LNT either.

It's all about compromises. A hiking trail keeps foot traffic to one known area and helps minimize damage to the surrounding area. So yeah, the trail itself could be considered impacting wilderness, but if not for that trail, it would actually be impacted more.

>but if not for that trail, it would actually be impacted more.

Or maybe it would impact it less by keeping tourists out. If it's about compromise, maybe we shouldn't call it Leave No Trace? That phrasing doesn't imply compromise, but it seems like every individual has their own ruleset when it comes to LNT, even though the wording is pretty absolute.

That's pretty unfair, the parent explicitly differentiated between navigational and aesthetic purposes. The former is a critical part of any trail more remote than a boardwalk, while the latter for someone's FOMO insta post.

Maybe someone's insta post is their critical part of their experience? Maybe they want to build cairns because they think they are beautiful. Who cares, it doesn't affect to environment as badly as a well traveled hiking trail with clear signage that attract lots of tourist who leave trash.

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