Hacker News Reader

Comment by gonehome | Hacker News Reader

Why not order a few HEPA filter air purifiers?

I have 4 (5th is on its way).

They work extremely well and if you pair them with a Temptop AQI sensor you can see how well in real time: https://www.temtopus.com/collections/temtopus-pm2-5-pm10-mon...

Those temptop sensors are great. I've previously had awair, foobot, and purple sensors which all sucked in different ways.

Really long thread about this here: https://www.reddit.com/r/AirQuality/comments/ikf1ed/are_ther...

View on HN

> Why not order a few HEPA filter air purifiers?

Everyone keeps saying this when they have been all sold out for the past 10 days.

I refuse to believe that all air filtering fans on Amazon are sold out, especially considering their extreme popularity in countries all over Asia. And even if we assume that’s the case for the sake of argument, you can still buy N95 particle masks of many different brands which will protect you well from particles in the air. They also mostly protect you from viruses. There was a pretty massive supply shortage of them this spring at the start of the pandemic but I doubt they’re extremely difficult to get a hold of today, I have five in my kitchen that I bought online for about a dollar each.

Sold out until this Friday when this is all supposed to be over, unless it's a very weak filter that won't do anything for smoke. Show me where you can get genuine N95 masks (as a non-essential worker) as well please. There are tons of counterfeit masks going around.

It’s not my job to help you find N95 masks, they’re available from most hardware stores and definitely from Amazon. I just looked and there’s at least one type available on Amazon that’s not 3M in addition to full respirator masks and everything in between, and it’s easy to find other stores through Google that sell 3M disposable masks if that happens to be the only one you trust.

In addition to that, loose particle filters as spare parts are not uncommon and you can literally strap any filter on a fan, close your windows and start forcing indoor air through it to improve the ambient air quality.

Buy it anyway - the fires aren’t going away and the filters are still useful in the absence of smoke.

Masks: https://pksafety.com/3m-7500-series-half-facepiece-respirato...

Filter: https://pksafety.com/3m-2071-p95-particulate-mask-filter-pai...

Looking at the current Amazon search results for “air purifier”: first one doesn’t ship to California, second is out of stock, third one is ridiculously expensive ($800!) and been shown to have a questionable effectiveness, fourth one can only cover a small room (and won’t arrive until next week), fifth and sixth ones are out of stock.

Also most people don’t enjoy wearing an N95 mask for a long time. Imagine wearing one for 8 hours while trying to sleep because you haven’t been able to get a filter. You can try to close every window and door and such in your house, but no one’s insulation is perfect and the air will get bad after a few hours.

If people don’t “enjoy” wearing particle masks they are free to breathe smoke and filter the indoor air with their lungs instead. I have worn one for eight hours many times when walking around cities with awful AQI scores and by far the most annoying thing about it is the condensation. You also don’t need “perfect” insulation for there to be a benefit to filtering indoor air, the simple fact that it moves around less means that it will clean up in a way outdoor air can’t. The “air purifiers” you can buy with filters built in are easy to use but at the end of the day they’re nothing more than a fan and a filter with air being forced through it.

And as a final point, you seem to just fall back on the fact that there are shortages as an indication that there’s nothing to be done, and this will soon be “over” anyway. First of all, you don’t know that, and secondly, if you live in an area where this is happening, it will happen again sooner or later. If you have nothing at home to help you filter the air you’re breathing, at least prepare for next time. Disposable particle masks are not a waste of money, they’re cheap and last forever.

Is that true that the smoke will get in after a few hours? Over the last few days, as soon as I step outside, I can smell the smoke out there really bad. I thought for sure that if it was smokey in the house, my nose would be used to the smell. I mean, I can see some particles getting into the house, but it has to be far better indoors doesn't it?

Certainly yes, it's better indoors. However long it'll take will depend on how good your insulation is (a lot of older construction in the Bay Area has really poor insulation; after all, we don't have to deal with harsh winters). That said, when it gets really bad outside (AQI >150) for over a few days, it's almost certainly going to get bad inside if you don't have any filtration.

One thing worth mentioning though is that the smoke you smell is volatile organic compounds, and the smoke you see is (I believe) PM10. You're not going to smell or see PM2.5, which is what these HEPA air purifiers are designed to filter. I'm not confident in this, but my intuition is that these smaller PM2.5 particles will find their way into your home more more quickly than the larger PM10 particles will.

At least in the Portland area, everything from Amazon is at least a four day delivery estimate. Not that things are sold out (they are in brick&mortar stores, for sure), but the distribution chain is unable to keep up, with people out sick, having evacuated, or even unable to drive as far as fast in the low visibility.

Amazon has officially stopped delivery in Portland due to the air quality. It's a hazardous work environment for their delivery workers.

I popped into Home Depot last Thursday and there were stacks of furnace filters and box fans available. Lowes and Ace Hardware websites show availability as well. Head down and take a look, YMMV in your area.

This isn't a nationwide shortage. Everyone in Seattle has been calling every Home Depot, Lowe's, and they've been sold out for a while. My local one in Bellevue was cleared out of all filters on Sunday, not even just the FPR10's. Ace's seems to be the most annoying. It lists a bunch of HEPA filters, then the product pages shows all of them are unavailable for pickup.

I have some on the way but they won't arrive until the end of the week. I wanted relief yesterday so I drove around to get it.

> Temptop AQI sensor

Went to that link. Tried to order. Glad i read the small text carefully:

"Ships within 28 Business Days"

Yeah...

wow, the temtop website sent my laptop fans spinning with all the crap it tries to load, and that my content blockers went into overdrive blocking (especially, and inexplicably, from reviewsimportify.com).

still, i'm interested in getting a good pm2.5 monitor to pair with my air purifier, as air pollution is a much bigger issue than covid (air pollution certainly affects vast swaths of people across the world, persistently and largely invisibly, and is only getting worse over the decades).

is waiting for the wifi version (currently sold out) worth nearly twice the (sale) price of an m10?

The WiFi versions have negative value to me, the apps are usually terrible and they are almost impossible to pair (typically only have 2.4ghz radios).

I went with the P10 which does exactly what I want (AQI and PM2.5). It looks nice, it works, and is highly visible from a distance (even has a 6hr battery which makes it easy to move between rooms).

The only other one I'd consider is the one that does CO2.

As a bonus the Temtop sensors are less than half the price of their competitors while being at least twice as good.

i guess i should have been more specific with my non-wifi version questions:

* is there a way to view sensor data historically and arbitrarily, preferably off device?

* is there a way to use it to control other devices (possibly via a home automation gateway) like my air purifier?

i see that it can be plugged in for power, but also has a battery, which is a nice feature. does that also allow for data transfer?

It doesn't do any of those things, it just senses AQI, PM 2.5 and puts it on the screen.

My experience with the devices that attempt to do the things you want is that they suck.

They do each of those things poorly and their basic detection functionality (most important feature) is also bad. (The reddit thread I linked to has details).

If a device existed that did those things and was actually good I'd recommend it.

As it is, everything in the market is awful.

At least these Temtops have the basic functionality down and do that part really well.

If you can do some really basic soldering then any i2c capable board (like raspberry) + PMSA003I + ccs811 and influx+grafana or something to dump the data into shoule give you the monitoring+archive solution.

Now just put your laptop inside of a HEPA vacuum bag. Problem solved.

Because, depending on where you are, they are all sold out.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com