Hacker News Reader

This sounds like what people say about immigrants. They don’t have deep roots or a command of the local lingo either, but they are still “locals” once they are living where locals live, shopping where locals shop, etc.

Nomads, migrants, whatever: if you treat your neighborhood and your neighborhood with respect, that’s what matters.

great point. virtually all AirBnb users espousing "want to live life like the locals" are basically using coded language for "don't want to stay with the 'other' tourists" - as if they are not tourists themselves.

it may also mean that they don't want to pay the hotel prices they see, so in order to sustain their lifestyle financially, they'll find a cheaper place via Airbnb.

I think that's being uncharitable to travelers. That might be true for some tourists, but I believe there are plenty of travelers who have honest anthropological curiosity about the cultures of the places where they're visiting. And that's a good thing.

The problem is that policy around short term rentals is agnostic to the renter's intentions. There's no real way I can think of to enforce "conscientious renters only" without also creating a system that gives too much leverage to badly intentioned hosts (for lack of a less context-specific word). So on the balance of considerations, and alongside all of the other effects that short stays have on communities, I'm mostly on the side of throwing this particular baby out with the bathwater.

> I think that's being uncharitable to travelers. That might be true for some tourists, but I believe there are plenty of travelers who have honest anthropological curiosity about the cultures of the places where they're visiting. And that's a good thing.

agreed. I don't think airbnb users honestly think they are living "like a local" when they stay somewhere for a few weeks. they just want to stay in a residential area as opposed to a hotel, and see the markets/restaurants that locals would walk to. or they might just want to pay less.

this sounds like the kind of attitude that makes it hard for any newcomer to settle in a different city or country. how many years does it take before my family is accepted as a local and not treated like an outsider? how long does it take to grow new roots?

the reality is for many that point is never reached. in some places, if you are not born there you are not accepted as a local.

i am not talking about digital nomands, but families with children who move because of a job or because of their kids school or other personal reasons. my family was forced to move 3 times in the past two years, and not because we didn't intend to stay, but because we couldn't.

a friend of mine tried to run a business in a german city and had to give up because the local old boys club would prevent him from getting customers.

this is the attitude that xenophobia is rooted in.

sure, someone staying only for a few days is a tourist, no matter how you turn it, but if someone staying for a few months is still treated like a tourist, then i'd consider that a problem.

I'd say you need to be in a new place for 3+ years to stop being treated as an outsider, assuming you learn the language, get local friends, and adopt the culture in the meantime.

If you can't speak the language and use local expressions, then you'll always be an outsider.

Source: moved to Colombia 5 years ago and took me 3 years to have people say "tu si eres bien Paisa" and "usted es mas Paisa que una arepa". Have seen a small minority of other foreigners get accepted. Most never learn the language / culture enough and will always be outsiders.

> how many years does it take before my family is accepted as a local and not treated like an outsider? how long does it take to grow new roots?

When you start paying taxes and contributing/engaging to the area (working, consuming, giving)

This, quite obviously, varies a lot from place to place - but IMO, if you fill the above points, you're as good as natives. But I think the biggest divider between insiders and outsiders is engagement - if you start engaging in the community, that's the fast-track to getting accepted.

I live in a foreign country for 10 years, in the same place. I never voted in the local elections (I cannot), never fought with local municipality, but I see it as my home.

You haven’t seen restaurants come and go. You don’t know the intricacies of local culture and etiquette. If you do speak the language, you don’t speak the lingo. You have never fought with the local municipality over some triviality. You’ve never voted in local elections. There’s no investment from your side. You have no roots in that place. You have no part in that place’s soul and I doubt it has a place in yours. By definition it’s not your home.

This sounds like gatekeeping to me. That's almost by definition what an immigrant's life is like until they naturalize, but I'd never tell an immigrant that this place isn't their home.

There is truth to the fact that I can't stay everywhere and experience everything, but I have a deeper understanding of the different ways the people live and the different things that communities value than I could ever have dreamed before I left.

It's also true that I can't have the depth of experience that comes with living in a place for years (or your whole life).

I wasn't exactly sheltered before becoming a nomad, but there is a difference in the experience. You do come to understand in at least a small part the differences between even countries/cities that are a few hundred kilometers apart.

I have found myself revisiting places, and finding places that I like the most within a city. Being sad when I leave Sweden because MAX burgers doesn't really exist outside the Nordic countries.

I am slowly learning another language, though that is a long term project. Ich spreche jetzt ein bisschen deutsch

What is the alternative then? Live like tourists in hotels and never understand what local people care about?

If you want to be a local you have to actually become a local. That means moving there and actually living there for a significant period of time.