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Comment by root_axis | Hacker News Reader

The mirror-test is not even close to exhaustive with respect to conclusions about self-awareness. It is certainly conceivable that a self-aware creature could simply be incapable of understanding a mirror or that they might be otherwise indifferent to what they see in it. For example, dogs fail the mirror test, but they are obviously self-aware creatures.

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Cats supposedly fail the mirror test, but I think they're just disinterested. There are a lot of videos of cats being shown live video of themselves and their owners, with the owner's face modified to look like a cat. In many of these the startled cat immediately turns around to look at their owner, seemingly indicating an awareness that the video they were being shown contained themselves and that the weird cat-like human creature seen in the video was behind them.

Compilation of such reactions that was posted on HN a fee days ago: https://youtube.com/watch?v=Jto2peSOLac

Here is a cat discovering its own ears in a mirror: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akE2Sgg8hI8

Cats grow old too. They have time to learn.

Very late comment, but I find this truly amazing. Yes, some cats are too dumb to fully grasp what's happening, but they do give the human a look of concern. Their reactions could be manipulated, but I find interesting how dogs look forth and back, while most cats remain fixated in the real human. Not very rigorous, but very cool anyway.

I've always thought a good mirror test shouldn't be just a mark, but something that looks like a venomous insect, to stimulate the subject to look for it.

> but they are obviously self-aware creatures.

Is it that obvious? Mine gets scared by her own farts sometimes.

I think it's axiomatically true. If we don't consider dogs to be "self-aware" then I think the discussion becomes an issue of semantics, because dogs clearly possess an emotional intelligence that necessarily implies a kind of "self-awareness" that is common to humans.

I would think that self-aware would imply not just emotions, but having awareness of oneself, not just "of one's body", but like, being able to think about how one would react to something, or at least some things somewhat like that.

Wikipedia says "While consciousness is being aware of one's environment and body and lifestyle, self-awareness is the recognition of that awareness."

Wouldn't that be evidence of NOT being self aware? If the animal is self aware, it knows a fart is coming and where it's coming from, so it should not be surprised.

Yes, I was providing that as a (rather weak) counterexample.

We had a mirror that our dog walked by every day, one day because of a surgery she was wearing a t-shirt to help prevent her from bothering the surgery site. First time she walked by the mirror she startled, realized she was wearing a t-shirt, and walked off.

Similarly when she walked by and we wave she immediately snaps her hear around to look at us.

Certainly seems like she understands mirrors and never treated a dog in the mirror as anything but herself.

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