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Comment by Angostura | Hacker News Reader

Advice: Use a good travel agent. In the UK I've used Trailfinders for many years for non-standard long-haul involving changes. They've dug me out of problems when I;ve had them. Like time when my wife didn't pack my passport on a long-haul to Australia. I went back to get my passport, but would miss the first leg. The airlines autmatically cancel all other legs.

The travel agent had sorted it all out while I was on the tube home, I ended up being able to catch up with the family in Singapore a day later after a flight via Düsseldorf. They earned their money that day.

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Small sample size, but I strongly disagree.

I've managed missed flights, getting bumped, losing my passport and various planning failures, on my own. Everything works out in the end.

The one time I used a travel agent (Flight Centre) for a trip at the beginning of the pandemic, I got screwed.

They delayed me from calling the airline during the period where they were giving out refunds, and kept telling me to just wait.

Then they refused to do anything, and directed me to speak with the airline, but by then it was too late.

Now I don't trust anyone to handle my travels but myself. They don't have your best interests at heart by a long shot.

>They don't have your best interests at heart by a long shot.

Huge shops like flight centre certainly don't, you're nobody to them. Their business primarily consists of selling terrible package holidays to clueless people. This is not what GP meant with "a good travel agent".

The incentives are completely different for smaller agencies offering a personalized service.

why would the incentives be different?

The smaller and "good" agencies generally focus on customer service, while the bigger ones focus on customer acquisition through brand name and probably do not care about customer retention.

It used to be that airlines (and hotels and rental car agencies) paid enough in commissions that travel agencies made good money booking flights.

Southwest Airlines, for example, has never paid commissions.

As sites like Expedia grew, many (all?) other airlines and hotels have reduced and reduced their commissions.

For some people, there's still value in saying "I want to take a trip to x" and let the travel agent work out the details. But the travel agencies now charge a fee to the customer because they get comparatively little from the businesses.

I don't follow this. Customer service is useful for customer retention in small firms, but customer service is also useful for building a brand in large firms.

The motivation for both is the same: selling as many vacation packages as possible.

Brands have inertia. Once your brand is big enough, you can get away with a shitty customer service and generally screwing customers over. If you aren't a total disaster of a company, then the worst that happens is that some of your customers book with another big brand the next year... but then customers who got screwed by that other brand will try their luck with you.

I'm really guessing with major travel agencies it works the same way as it seems to work with mobile operators in my country: you have three major networks to choose from, every one tries to screw you over as much as possible, but since everyone needs a smartphone, people just bounce around between the three in anger (or try to arbitrage deals). Viewed at scale, it's just an equilibrium.

Good customer service is expensive, usually the first one to go when the firm is big enough to have middle managers.

I swear by flightfox. I have had extraordinary service with them. Worth every cent. I can't tell you how amazing they have been for me and my family the last months.

https://flightfox.com

I'm not kidding. They got all my international flights refunded and booked flights that I thought were impossible. Paid for itself with each booking that needed expert attention.

Travel agents can't do much when the airlines are - at best - confused by what's happening. And at worst they're acting in bad faith to continue receiving income for flights which might exist but probably won't - either because of sudden restrictions, or because the flight will be >80% empty and an unviable loss.

So they'll take the money to shore up revenue and cash flow, and then customers can fight their way through their systems to get it back when the flight is cancelled. All manner of hilarity ensues. (Unless you're one of those waiting - now literally numbering millions in Europe - then it's not funny at all.)

Personally I'm not going to trust any airline with a flight booking until there's something resembling a reliable service again.

If you’ve got a high end credit card (something that charges $500 or more a year for the annual fee), it probably comes with a travel concierge service. Your wait time on the phone is going to be much shorter, and the credit card company is a large enough aggregate customer that they will have leverage you don’t.

A local school had a trip to Sacramento booked through a travel agent. The Travel Agent went bankrupt and the Airline refunded the travel agent and did not refund the ticket to the parents.

So, good being the operative word here as Travel Agents are prone to going bankrupt right now.

On the other hand (just as anecdotal), I've flown a couple dozen times in my life (~50) and have never had any problems myself (luck plays a big role in this I reckon). Would I have used a travel agency, I'd probably be a few thousand euros lighter.

If you know what you're doing, a travel agency is going to suck. Flying 100+ times a year, I hate when I have to deal with an agency, because it makes being 'agile' in the face of events much, much more difficult.

If you DONT know or rarely travel, it probably IS worth effort. It's can be tricky to deal with things and know what you can/can't do in each situation.

>If you know what you're doing, a travel agency is going to suck

If you think this you probably don't know what you're doing. Working with a good agency is a breeze, but there are lots of shitty ones out there.

Especially for hotel bookings 99% of the time you'd be stupid to not use a travel agent.

You're right, I guess all of the heavy travelers I know are just stumbling around in the dark and don't know what's going on.

I've used a bunch of them for corporate travel, and at no point has it been a breeze. Knowing what fares are available on specific flights, seat assignments, etc. lets me get exactly the experience I want, without 'hoping they got me the seats I like' or anything.

For hotel bookings I don't see what advantage they have over either the basic hotel websites or calling my status hotline for assistance in tricky situations.

In all cases the travel agency removes my agency to work directly with the airlines or the hotel to fix issues.

>You're right, I guess all of the heavy travelers I know are just stumbling around in the dark and don't know what's going on.

If they're corporate travelers spending somebody else's money this is usually the case.

>I've used a bunch of them for corporate travel, and at no point has it been a breeze. Knowing what fares are available on specific flights, seat assignments, etc. lets me get exactly the experience I want, without 'hoping they got me the seats I like' or anything.

It sounds like you've just worked with the big shops that offer a terrible service.

>For hotel bookings I don't see what advantage they have over either the basic hotel websites or calling my status hotline for assistance in tricky situations.

Because of programs like FSPP, STARS and MO fan club you're essentially always going to get better value by booking through a travel agency the hotel has a relationship with.

>In all cases the travel agency removes my agency to work directly with the airlines or the hotel to fix issues.

In all cases the travel agency is in a far stronger negotiating position to fix any issues. If the hotel screws up something I'd much rather have my travel agent yell at them and arrange compensation for me than spend time dealing with it myself, the outcome will always be better this way because his business is worth much more to the hotel than mine.

>> the travel agency is in a far stronger negotiating position to fix any issues.

Maybe, but that assumes that the travel agent is actually working for you. What kickbacks does the agency get from the airline/hotel? That is the longer term relationship, far longer than any one-time customer-agent relationship. The agency would probably rather drop or mistreat a customer than damage their relationship with the airline/hotel.

The agent doesn't get kickbacks from the airline or the hotel. The agent gets a kickback from the distribution system, which itself charges a fee to the airline. Airlines don't want agencies, they tolerate them because they still bring the vast majority of traffic (except for some lowcosts, e.g. SWA, Ryanair)

AFAIK if they're in a partner program like FSPP the kickback will come directly from the chain, and these are exactly the bookings where travel agents can offer the most value.

We'll just have to continue living in different worlds. That's never been my experience, ever.

If they're not a big shop, they're going to have even less leverage with the vendors than I do as the valued customer. If they are a big shop with leverage, they're not going to give a shit about me.

And are you confusing 'better experience' or 'save money'? Sure, I'll definitely grant you that it might be cheaper booking through an agent, especially if you buy a package/etc.

That's not, in my experience, ever a better experience. The goal is to not suffer, not safe a few hundred bucks.

Most of my holidays are in the mid 5 figures range, shorter work trips tend to average around 2k/night. I'm not looking for cheap deals, but for a better experience. I don't buy packages, I mostly design my own itineraries.

I work with a boutique agency with around 10 staff, their yearly volumes with the chains I frequent are in the tens of millions. There are lots of agencies like this, you only need a couple of billionaire clients making regular 500k bookings to have a plenty of leverage.

I always thought travel agents were bullshit until I found out about the perks offered trough the Four Seasons preferred partner program and figured I'd give it a shot for a single booking. After check-in the agent called me to make sure everything went smoothly, I pointed out a tiny issue regarding the check-in progress that I would've immediately forgotten about if not for the fabulous service recovery arranged by the agent. After that this agency has had all of my business.

>> Flying 100+ times a year

Anyone flying that much does so in a very different world. Even without flashing cards or identifying yourself, airline employees and computer systems know you are valued customer, resulting in a very different user experience. This can be as extreme as you rarely ever being bumped off of flights, or as subtle as help lines pushing your cell number to the top of a wait queue. Like it or not, if you fly 100+ times a year you will get special treatment.

Not necessarily, there are lots of things an airline agent won't or can't do for you, however valued your status.

For example, adding ghost segments from another airline so that you can get cross-alliance IATCI without going to the desk at the airport

Again I disagree. "I'm at tghe airport, my flight has been cancelled - can you get me out any other way" - 20 minutes later was sorted/.

> Use a good travel agent

A part of me feels like "in the 21st century, why do I need a travel agent". Then again, maybe we all actually do need travel agents again.

And I suspect it's all for the same reason.

In general, you need agents to navigate complex systems with which you have little familiarity.

Given the 21st century air travel features navigating complex automated systems designed to gaslight you into giving them interest-free loans, it seems like an agent is exactly what is called for.

I expect the value of SME-assistance in a number of areas is going to increase, not shrink.

I remember when I was a teenager that I was all into opening everything to digital self-service. I preferred doing business with companies that allowed me to do everything via their website, so that I could do things on my own and without unnecessary human contact. I thought this is how the world is supposed to work.

Fast forward one and a half decade, today I, frankly, have more disposable income than free time. I'm tired of self-service bullshit (and companies always love to complicate things to create upselling opportunities). I avoid doing things through websites or apps. E-mails are better, because once the other side replies, it means a human has acknowledged my request so I get to ensure they understand it right, and if they screw up, they can't blame it on "the system". Phone calls are the best, because dealing with a human on the line is much faster than dealing with confusing websites and broken apps.

And now I finally understand why travel agencies, all-inclusive holidays, concierges, secretaries, etc. all exist. It's for people who are at the stage in their careers where they have enough disposable income to use it to save time and frustration. Relying on digital self-service isn't a sign that you're an awesome self-reliant tech-whizz (like I thought in my teenage years). It's a sign you're not rich enough to pay someone else to deal with it.

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