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Comment by edw | Hacker News Reader

Does no one else agree with me that this is awesome? I love being able to visualize my comings and goings. It's the story of the last year or so of my life, in colored dots.

I hope Apple doesn't respond to the "outrage" by no longer collecting this data. To a first order approximation, I am with Scott McNealy over in the "Privacy?! Get over it" camp:

http://www.wired.com/politics/law/news/1999/01/17538

As an aside, can real outrage even exist anymore in this age of the easy forum post or re-tweet or tumblr entry or Facebook post? And if it does, how do you identify it? And if you can identify it, what does it mean?

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if the feature was opt-in it might, conceivably, be called awesome. But not being told that my iDevice will log my every move and leave this data open to the next johnny-come-lately to get his hands on my device? Terribly uncool. Logging should be a setting, or better, an app. Not a hidden, no opt-out feature imposed on over a hundred million iDevice owners.

Set up a passcode, now they can't access the data on your phone unless they have the passcode, or your iTunes plist file ...

Sex is pretty awesome, too, unless you don't get any say in the matter.

Wow, you're making a rape analogy. Glad you decided to stay classy and not make your post an instance of Godwin's Law.

The comparison is very apt. Consent often changes how we view things. Rape and privacy violations are not the same but when it comes to consent very similar.

So you think it's defensible to say that Apple is raping its users? Let's get some people who have been victims of rape in here and ask them how they feel about this over-the-top analogy.

For comparisons to be useful, you don't have to take everything literally. As far as the question of consent is concerned, the comparison is apt.

But why make the comparison if not to inflame? That's the point, isn't it? Comparing data collection to sex in the context of consent—as if the concept of consent applies in the same way, which is on its face a bold assertion—isn't about a logical argument, it's about trying to win a war over people's sentiments. And I think the sentiment that's being fought for here is irresponsible and simplistic.

If you chose to be inflamed ...

It's simple really, many people believe that privacy relevant data shouldn't be collected without the users consent. There is nothing at all wrong with collecting location data if the user has agreed to it, that changes if said consent is missing. Just as with sex.

I found the comparison was very apropos to the context and useful. Call me simplistic, but I'm glad it was cast and totally not inflamed (save for my original inflammation towards Apple).

It's not apropos. Can you be raped by your vibrator or your blow up doll? This is about a device passively logging data, not a moral agent doing something to you.

Show me the person that Apple has hurt. The only people I've been reading about here taking actions are law enforcement officials, people in black helicopters, and betrayed lovers.

"Can you be raped by your vibrator or your blow up doll?"

If either of those has sex with me without my consent, then yes. I would call that rape. Who in their right mind wouldn't?

Exactly. Count me as one feeling Apple's rep is severely damaged. The notion that this device stores gigs of personal data (without my prior knowledge) and has been transmitting it back to Apple, somehow this is okay with you? Not I guy, not I.

More people should know.

What you view as a device passively logging data, others may view as a company actively designing a device that logs data.

I love being able to visualize my comings and goings.

Then use something like Latitude. There are options for you if you want to see this data other than having Apple collect data from all users whether they like it or not.

I think you are confused: you say that "Apple collect[s] data." Apple's software is collecting data, but is it the case that Apple has access to this data? I don't think so. There are issues of agency here: in my interpretation of things, my phone is collecting and storing the data, Apple isn't.

I guess I have some sort of perverse desire to see my karma auger into the x axis thanks to this issue, because people seem to be whiny hysterics on it. Computers log data. A phone is a computer. The history of the phone's location is conceivably useful—it's like a geospatial stack trace—and even if this data is going to the Apple mothership, I don't care as long as the data gets Tivo-ified.

I said "Apple collects data" as a shorthand for "Apple's software collects data and stores it on your phone" because the distinction you're making seems to be meaningless to most people. I can see your point though.

Still, I don't see why this is better than an optional, third party application for this data. I also think that people should be upset at their phone keeping this data without their knowledge. You say it could be useful, but useful to whom? Advertisers, stalkers, "The Government"? I can't see how this useful to most users at all.

computers log data, A phone is a computer.

I think most people view their phone somewhat more intimately than their computer. Notice the uproar any time privacy issues like these are raised about a phone. Furthermore, tracking someone's location is just about the creepiest thing you could do for most people. It's just ripe for abuse, and as I stated earlier, I can't see much in the way of positive use.

"the distinction you're making seems to be meaningless to most people"

No, the distinction is critical to most people. Apple's iPhone software records all the calls I make, the phone numbers I call and the duration. That's fine.

I'd be pretty peeved if that information was harvested by Apple Inc.

Can you please put it somewhere on the Internet. I'd love to look at it.

Thank you in advance.

You're welcome:

http://bbb.poseur.com/post/4777454362/the-last-year-or-so-of...

Great follow through. I kind of agree with you. I'm not sure what I'd use the data for, but I sure did enjoy looking back on where I was.

My amusement outweighs my outrage.

I think he asked for the full database dump, not a meaningless country-level zoomed screenshot. But I give you props for revealing even this much; I would have certainly not done so.

I was going to do so, if only to prove that I don't give a shit, but after glancing at the instructions, I'm not going to do it unless someone provides me with a shell script. It's too much of a pain in the ass.

But if any of you are pathetic and creepy enough to want to know where I was on any particular day, feel free to send me e-mail at edw@poseur.com and I'll let you know.

Do you use Mac? It seems writing a script would be easier for Mac. I can try to cook one up. I will post it here if I succeed.

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