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Comment by nix23 | Hacker News Reader

>basically every elite athlete is doping.

Yes this! You have 3 doping levels from cheapest to really expansive:

3: Silver (the doping that is known and detectable)

2: Gold (known and probably detectable but often combined with additional substance to "wash it out" faster or hide it behind other stuff like "legal" painkillers etc)

1: Platinum (doping that is not detectable in the next 5 years "seal of proof by laboratories?")

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3: Is for your little Darling or Bodybuilders ;)

2: For your National-cup

1: For Olympics, World-cups etc..(everything where lots of money is behind)

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I want to see a documentary that is basically what Icarus was going to be before it turned into being about international politics: doping by “weekend warriors” in amateur sports.

There is a lot of paranoia in the running community (for example) that even local municipal marathons are being won by amateurs doping (not to mention some people running with those Nike “Vaporfly” shoes with the carbon fiber plate in them.) I have my doubts about how effective it is at the amateur level. I suspect it’s like amateurs buying expensive golf clubs and golf balls hoping it will make them better when really they just need more practice and are skill limited rather than gear limited.

At the tested amateur powerlifting federations, you do occasionally see people get popped after a urine test. EG:

https://www.britishpowerlifting.org/news/drug-test-results

What bugs me about this is that there is untested powerlifting with better prizes. Go compete there if you want to take PEDs!! Of all the sports PL is the most honest in that it has that outlet at least, but it of course varies by country. The steroids taboo in some countries might discourage the creation of untested federations. That could end up having the wrong effect of encouraging athletes on the fence about punching their natty card; they might stay in the tested federation while using PEDs.

It's completely stupid because all you will get is a trophy worth probably max ~£20 and some bragging rights. I could understand it more if it was for £100k prize money. Totally pointless.

Depends on the sport. The uplift from PED usage in certain sports is obscene. I would guess that most top level amateurs in strength sports are doping or have doped, and traditional doping indicators (e.g. FFMI >25) suggest the same. There are fewer good indicators in endurance and skill sports to work with.

Jesus I just had this exact same thought. I wonder if that director ever considered retrying his original concept...

With that said I think a lot of the pedantics of "but IS doping really happening in international sports" going on in this thread could be emphatically answered with "uh, yes" by simply watching _Icarus_.

I know for a fact that 3 isn't even used on national-cup event in France, at least for sailing, canoe and kayak events. Or rather, that the club and physical preparators from this club advise against anything other than supplements, and even the French Kayak champion (Joly) only take a few of those, only 1/3rd of a year.

>sailing, canoe and kayak events

How much money is behind those sports? Hint...NOT much. We Talk about Cycling, Athletics, Football and so on..

>I know for a fact that 3 isn't even used on national-cup event in France

No you don't.

BTW: I knew for a Fact that Lance Armstrong was the biggest Cycle Pro ever born and he would never need doping because he was just in another league then anyone else.

EDIT: Would you look at that:

http://sportscene.tv/paddlesports/2016/07/doping-problem-in-...

https://www.firstpost.com/sports/rio-2016-doping-scandal-hit...

But that's the Romanian Team...would never happen in France right?

There is a lot of money in sailing, but in general most of the gains there are from better boats, so the backers putting money in aren't likely spend money on doping. (doping would help, but every dollar spent on dope is a dollar not spent on boat design)

>There is a lot of money in sailing

Not the Olympic sailing...Oracle stuff yes...but do you really need doping for sailing? It's more about tactics not ultra high-end body-strength..i sailed Lasers for 4 years and it is demanding, but nothing against Street-cycling/CrossCountry

> >sailing, canoe and kayak events

> How much money is behind those sports? Hint...NOT much. We Talk about Cycling, Athletics, Football and so on..

No, the parent talked about:

> basically every elite athlete is doping.

That's just not true. Unless you have a totally twisted understanding of what an athlete is.

Sorry, that's BS. In some sports and some top ranks, maybe there is a lot of money behind. But that's a very narrow view of "elite athlete". I personally know some Olympic finalists in some sports, and they certainly don't see big money. They struggle to actually train full-time over an Olympic cycle (4 years) without having to have some part-time job that puts food on the table and pays for gear, trips to training camps and competitions.

>I personally know some Olympic finalists in some sports, and they certainly don't see big money

MONEY BEHIND...that's something else. And the Athletes don't pay for the Stuff, AND it's not in every sport and not every sport profits from doping.

I replied to "basically every elite athlete is doping." That's definitely BS. So, you agree with me then?

My friend was in the finals in Beijing and in London, top-6. In London half a second from a medal. Yes doping would help immensely but those guys have too much honor to do this. No, there is no money behind. He gets sponsoring in form of a boat which is sponsored by the manufacturer. The rest of his life's expenses, all travels, housing, shipping of his equipment, bring wife and kids along sometimes, mortgage on their house, all that needs to be paid for. And it was a struggle to finance all this. Friends help, family helps, and a few local companies in his hometown chip in. He is a construction engineer and his net worth is less than half mine as a mid-30 programmer.

So yes, everybody keep downvoting me and ignore that not every "elite athlete" is some overpaid basketball or soccer pro making 8-figures a year and evading taxes.

>I replied to "basically every elite athlete is doping." That's definitely BS

True in Curling i never heard of doping. And trust me even your friend would not told you if he takes doping (no saying he did).

And again not every Sport profits from Doping and not everyone takes them but lots and lots of them do, and having a blind eye because of profit is the unfair thing for the honest and sportsmanship'ish peoples.

> True in Curling i never heard of doping.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/19/sports/olympics/olympic-c...

Your feelings are not in congruence with facts.

> And again not every Sport profits from Doping and not everyone takes them but lots and lots of them do, and having a blind eye because of profit is the unfair thing for the honest and sportsmanship'ish peoples.

Again, evidence or it did not happen. You are casting unproven claims as facts. That gives the impression that the default is an athlete is doped, and _that's_ what's unfair.

I don't see why i have to prove anything, I'm not that Anti Doping Agency. Look at the past for example Street-cycling. Russian Olympic team, the Team from East Germany etc....lots of evidence...and even in Curling.

Thanks for the laugh.

Which is why, the conspiracy theory goes, it’s only second tier athletic disciplines that have a doping problem. In sports where the real money is, such as football and tennis, it pays to sweep results under the rug. Cyclists and distance skiers, on the other hand, seem to go from one scandal to the next.

Unless an athlete shows up that does manage to bring in serious amounts of money. In that case the lid goes on for a few years.

At that point i would not speak of a "conspiracy theory" anymore, more of like a unspoken truth.

EDIT:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6327574/

>In football players, doping has recently become an important matter

>>Androgen abuse has not only a direct effect on myocardial hypertrophy and fibrosis, but can also result in myocardial infarction, arrhythmia, hypertension and dyslipidemia

>>>Herbal supplements, anti-histamines and non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/aug/08/more-young-f...

But no probable connection to Doping...when the guardian sleeps...

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