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Comment by teilo | Hacker News Reader

I realize this sort of tool targets a completely different audience, but what we desperately need is not more no-code builders, but a robust, DB-backed builder with an object-based workflow, and with code-behind for custom workflow logic. Like something that can compete with Zoho Creator, but is actually engineered in a sane manner, and offered at a sane price. It would take the market by storm.

Most of the solutions out there either are stunted by no-code workflow that severely limits what you can do (ala Casio), or are code-behind solutions that are poorly engineered, fragile, and require deep platform knowledge and far too much coding to accomplish simple tasks (ala Alpha).

Zoho Creator is the happy medium, but it's cludgy, badly organized, has terrible support, missing key functionality, and its engineering choices are mind-numbingly stupid.

We need an Access for the web, but nothing comes close.

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Hi there! That's what we're working on with Retool (https://retool.com) It's, as you say, a "DB-backed" (or API-backed) front-end builder that's designed specifically for engineers. We don't store any data, and you can customize the front-end by importing your own React components or by writing JS.

(I made it, so feel free to ping me if you have any feedback: david AT retool)

We're in the early days of Makeswift but extensibility is a big part of our vision. The way we've built the core technology of our product is such that every component used in the builder is just a React component (and could be a Vue component or Svelte component), and even the controls in the sidebar, which we call panels, are also just React components. With this architecture, we plan to expose a public API where developers can just build their own Makeswift components and share them with the world. Someone could build a Stripe Checkout component, for example. Somebody else could build a table component that pulls the rows from Google Sheets, or Airtable, or from a Zoho API?

We've spent a lot of time thinking about the right architecture to pull this off. Today, we're focusing on removing bottlenecks for marketers so that they can build beautiful websites with flexibility, fast. So because of that we are making all the components ourselves. In the future, though, we expect most components to be built by other people.

> what we desperately need is not more no-code builders, but a robust, DB-backed builder with an object-based workflow, and with code-behind for custom workflow logic

Have you looked at PHPMaker?

https://phpmaker.dev/features.php

Check this: https://appdrag.com There is a pagebuilder producing real code that you can export and also a cloud sql db and API builder also producing real code (node.js) that you can modify and/or export and run on your own.

Static files are stored in S3 and served by cloudfront. API endpoints are served by AWS Lambda, so it's quite fast and scalable.

It's also supporting advanced features like SSR and translations.

It's a low code solution, easy to use for non coders, and full access to source and advanced backend features for devs.

Disclaimer: I am the CTO ;)

Documentation: https://support.appdrag.com/

Webflow

> ... code-behind ...

> We need an Access for the web, but nothing comes close.

You're using ASP.NET terminology (code-behind) and implying that Access was some sort of DB revolution on the desktop.

About time to get out of your bubble.

I'm using the term generically, and you have no idea what you are talking about. Access was a DB revolution on the desktop. And that was both good and bad, as anyone who has had to migrate complex legacy Access apps to MSSQL will tell you.

As for my "bubble," stop being so judgmental. You have no idea what my background is. I'm primarily a Python dev, specializing in systems integration.

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