Comment by frankus | Hacker News Reader

Comment by frankus | Hacker News Reader

The shape of this thing reminds me of one of those desktop calculator apps that have on-screen number keys. Physical calculators need number keys, or else there’s no way to enter numbers, but a device with a keyboard doesn’t need a bunch of number keys that no one is ever going to click on. They’re just decoration, and there’s no reason to add them aside from telling people “hey, this is a calculator”.

Likewise a vehicle like the electric Hummer (or the Rivian truck and SUV) doesn’t need that visibility- and pedestrian-killing codpiece that they have mounted over the electric drivetrain (which likely doesn’t extend beyond the envelope of the wheel wells). There’s no need for it except to tell people “hey, this is a truck”. Except in this case it’s a design element that is literally killing an increasing number of people every year[1], not just a bit of wasted screen real estate.

I really hope this design language eventually goes the way of way of the Landau[2], either by way of some forward-thinking EV designer who doesn’t keep copying the mistakes of ICE vehicles, or that people finally wake up to how utterly ridiculous these vehicles look[3], or by way of some kind of minimal standards around forward visibility[4] and pedestrian injury potential.

[1] https://www.codot.gov/safety/traffic-safety-pulse/2019/march... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landau_(automobile) [3] https://twitter.com/verge/status/1318208829675491329 [4] https://twitter.com/ItsMcMikeTime/status/1296801390862446597...

I have a 1987 Econoline modified for offroading. Previous models had the engine inside. Subsequent models had the engine entirely in front. But the generation I have split the difference with a short, downward sloping hood.

For this reason and many more - ever since Tesla announced their SUV, I have wished that someone in the EV space would consider this era of van when building anything meant to appeal to overlanding. Despite the many many issues, the design has excellent approach and departure angles, extremely good utility, has the same footprint of a full sized truck, and (for many reasons) has been a favorite for aftermarket conversion for a long time (see Sportsmobile or any of dozens of RV builders). Professional conversion companies and hobbyist like myself spend a lot of time building electrical systems into these vans to make them into better campers. Unlike your average truck owner (farmer, rancher, contractor, etc), the entire van-building niche would embrace a solid EV alternative.

Rivian (of all companies) is building a very cool looking delivery van for Amazon. Not sure if they're going to be available for civilian use, or if there's going to be an all wheel drive option, though.

IMO there are very few situations where a van isn't superior to a pickup truck, and I don't understand the continued popularity of trucks versus vans in the US. About the only advantages of pickups are for bulk materials (e.g. soil/gravel), messy materials (e.g. straw bales) and really tall things that need to stay upright (e.g. refrigerators), and of course towing certain extremely large trailers.

Only thing I can think of is that pickups have better visibility, both to see out/down... and to see who is driving.

I've had a pickup and a van and it's easier to get stuff in and out of a pickup - you can walk around the side and haul stuff over your head and get in the bed and walk around. motorcycles fit in a pickup, or 3 of them.

I think the same thing from an RV standpoint. RVs have more complexity than cars, houses and trucks combined.

An EV chassis could converge driving, lighting, appliances, heating and cooling into one system, and make off-grid and solar a real possibility.

The concept you're referring to with drawing obsolete design features from the past is called Skeuomorphism. It's a huge pet peeve of mine. Apple products used to be bad about this.

Tesla has done well to design away the ICE front grill. Though even the original Model S had a fake grill to not throw people off.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skeuomorph

> Tesla has done well to design away the ICE front grill

I thought consensus was opposite.

> doesn’t need a bunch of number keys that no one is ever going to click on

Don't underestimate the number of people who like to lean back in their chair and do everything with a mouse.

When I was a kid and was taught using a mouse, the standard practice was to press these little tiny buttons on a calculator app to practice fine motor skills.

This is supposedly the reason Windows ships with solitaire.

Did you mean Minesweeper?

Solitaire would be good for training dragging.

Yup, a sales manager I worked with learned computer skills by playing Solitaire.

The replies to that Verge tweet sadden me.

"Don't review large vehicles if you don't like them."

"There are bigger vehicles on the roads."

"It's not a problem because I personally have never hit anyone."

"It's supposed to be big an imposing."

People really are addicted to their oversized silly-mobiles.

As much as I agree with your general point, this electric hummer [0] looks great in my opinion. I'm hoping there is a way of making good looking and safe cars that don't have to look like eggs. Probably easier to say being in Australia where giant trucks like the hummer are still the exception.

[0] https://www.rushlane.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/2021-hum...

I'm a bit confused about this "SUV's kill pedestrians" hatred.

Don't buses, vans and trucks kill people too? How about solving problem of mixing pedestrian and car traffic to begin with. Also slowing the streets themselves to the point you're comfortable cycling next to traffic? Make parking spots smaller so that it's just inconvenient to use ${car_type_I_dont_like}.

Pedestrian deaths have been rising in the US for a few years after falling steadily, and the number of private vehicles that are light trucks and SUVs has been rising steadily. So there's a clear correlation, as well as a mechanism in that the higher, blunter front ends of these vehicles are more likely to kill pedestrians in a collision (hitting vital organs instead of legs).

It's hard to know if there was a commensurate rise in buses, vans and (commercial) trucks, but they have a couple of mitigating factors: Drivers usually have more training, and they're often designed with reasonable forward visibility (especially cab-over designs).

You're 100% right that street design is a super important variable here. If this kind of thing interests you I'd recommend the book Right of Way by Angie Schmitt (no relation).

> So there's a clear correlation

But is there clear data? Seems pretty straightforward data to collect...

You can also correlate it to price of bitcoin, smartphones, avocado futures, airpods and social media /s

Finally, how much professional training to minivan and MPV drivers get?

I’d be more inclined to tie it to the rise of smartphones if we’re speculating on causation.

SUVs, trucks, and Van's pretty much fall in the same category of large vehicles.

In states like Texas a huge portion of vehicles are not cars but these behemoths.

People also have access to touch screens for desktops though, and in some cases no keyboard.

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