I am an Uighur who faced China’s concentration camps

It's pointless. Actions that address the result of group behaviour need to come from the group (government). All else is just grandstanding.

https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aamazon.com+%22where+i...

We don't need crappy pens, toys, electronics, etc...

I don't know about you, but I'm personally happy to own one ballpoint pen that'll last me for 20 years (and only have to refill it from time to time). If anything, just to not see some poor guy work as a slave (long work-days, minimum pay, suicide nets). Right now you can just go purchase 10x crappy pens that easily break and dry out for around €2, whyyyy?

Amazon has also become almost as bad as Alibaba in allowing counterfeit and knockoff items to be sold openly.

Besides, the rules around country of origin are complicated, and some countries have product description law about this. And what's to stop Amazon sellers sticking fake country of origin on, as they can already do for CE marking?

Or the reverse: Amazon stick a China flag on iPhones. Apple are going to get extremely upset about this and sue/offer money to change that to a US flag.

The https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Anti-Boycott_Act may make it illegal to force Israeli sellers to identify their country of origin.

Who declares the country of origin? Who ensures compliance for item? How is compliance done? Do you review every single item?

How do you ensure that manufacturers update their country of origin declaration if/wehen they change downstream procurement? If you the raw materials are sourced in China and assembled in Vietnam, does that count as a Vietnamese product?

Amazon still has trouble with fake reviews, brushing scams, and straight-up counterfeits. Adding another system that needs to be policed doesn't seem like a very good idea. Especially when that system (country of origin flag on every product) has questionable upside.

I’d also say it’s surprisingly easy to boycott Chinese goods, as well as companies kowtowing to China.

Interesting how you left out the folks who buy the products in question.

If they were some minor country that supplied all the world's bananas someone could potentially put together something like that, and we'd all live without bananas for a while.

But China makes just about everything, and not just cheap and simple stuff anymore.

In game theory (and experiments with real people) sometimes it makes sense to punish a misbehaving player even though it harms you yourself. It really does not seem like any country in the West is anywhere close to being willing to do that.

I'd like to see something along the lines of "tariffs go up 5% each year, and will be dropped to zero when China drops the GFC". I don't want huge economic disruption for China or the US, but a slow disentanglement. And a clear carrot that lets them know it's not personal, the CCP just has to let its citizens talk with the peoples it wants to trade with. "Your move" to the CCP, while remaining positive about the Chinese people.

I know that isn’t your point, and agreed on the WTO. As a mass we will never sacrifice a 10% cheaper product to stop inhumanities. We need to elect officials who will handle that via economics. I’ve always been a fan of taxing Chinese imports to offset this factor.

If only we can just keep partisan politics out of the discussions as the taxes on Chinese products were immediately bashed based on the person who implemented it. We need to look at the decision itself to evaluate it, not the party that made the decision. We can disagree with most of a party’s decisions but if you find you hate 100% of them you are likely applying a bias to something that may be good.

Check out Crouching Tiger. It’s a great modern book that includes how we are buying/trading our way into losing the next war.

It's also a perfect illustration of how otherwise supposedly intelligent people in tech are just as easily manipulate outside their area of expertise as the fox news audience.

It's always amusing when people who cause the most misery in the world shout the loudest about human rights and such.

https://www.npr.org/2020/06/08/872470104/economists-announce...

> If the CCP took Taiwan right now

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/4034710

They are the ones who turned a blind eye to Rwanda and gave the guy who sold the guns a top job, aren't they?

Intervening in another's country internal affairs leads to a war. UN is a nice idea, though it doesn't work in reality. To apply for an asylum, you need to leave the country. Low likelyhood of happening.

I explain why its wrong to my kids. What then?

As sad as it is, we can't do much if anything.

My taxes have frequently paid for US Gov led torture. If we ever hold China accountable in a meaningful way, it won't be due to authentic moral outrage.

The US certainly doesn't have a stellar Human Rights record in wars or other; but it's mostly because of incompetence and not as an agenda to keep one race only.

How would one go about that?

The ironic and actually instructive part of this is that his work was used to rationalize the Syrian war for the west, which has left an absolutely devastating trail of misery for countless millions of Syrian people.

Even more instructive is that the people responsibly for that misery all still pretend to be the good guys.

Sadly if there were any Chinese team members that heard you and took offense, you could have been reported as saying racist things in the workplace.

This is what is silencing people and politicians from speaking the truth on China and other oppressive governments.

Maybe EU, USA, Canada, India, Israel, Japan vs China, Russia, N. Korea, Iran, Saudia Arabia?

Except there's some racism/xenophobia between Russia, Islam, China, so maybe not...

But a lot of those places lack water, so that could be motivating factor for more strife, and ignite border clashes, and we might pick sides and others pick their sides and before long it's everywhere and everyone fighting.

What is made in the US that doesn't buy raw materials or partially assembled materials from china?

Lacking that kind of leverage, economic leverage is really the best next thing isn't it?

This is true more so when the people didn't even elect this government.

I don't believe this stuff about torture cages. The Chinese government is trying to subdue the Uighurs by torturing them for 20 days and then... just letting them go?

Trump’s China tariffs have already forced many companies to move to Vietnam/India/Mexico/etc. The few remaining are likely hoping Biden will win since he said he would end Trump’s China tariffs.

Not really tracking with the tone of TFA's claims imo.

For the First, even Wikipedia warned that it lacks citations and verification, so I don't think it should be considered as a "creditable source". Also it's only a tiny portion of Xinjiang.

For the Second, even if we consider it 100% true, it doesn't really support the original claim from that interview article, in several ways:

1. It's a small portion of Xinjiang, and the claim _implies_ that the whole Xinjiang was "formerly East Turkestan before the Chinese invasion of 1949"

2. The Second ETR was pro-communism, pro-Soviet, pro-CPC, and against the rest of Xinjiang that's under RoC control. In 1949 CPC won the civil war against RoC (KMT), took control of all of Xinjiang. So I don't see in anyway it could be claimed that China invaded ETR in 1949.

One thing I don't understand is why do those condemn China's treatment of Uyghurs have to add the (likely dubious) claim of China invaded Xinjiang in 1949. It's not like doing a domestic (cultural) genocide is something "better" than invasion and genocide, so why add some dubious claim to your legitimate claim?

Snyder’s Bloodlands is the definitive work on the subject. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloodlands

If I were an evil dictator with the means in the modern day and I wanted to really intimidate a population, I would abduct some of that population and just secretly kill them and burn their bodies. Nobody can then prove whether you actually killed them. You could say you re-educated them and then let them go, and their present whereabouts are no longer your business.

I think it's a fair comparison. The amount of innocent bystanders killed by the the US military will be much more than what happens in concentration camps.

The difference is the wording. War sounds not as bad as re-education and concentration camps. This is because you're use to it. Change the word from war to slaughter, because that is what war is.. slaughter. It's not even an exaggeration... if you've ever seen a bomb or a bullet massacre a human being into a bloody mess, slaughter is a very appropriate word.

When you change the word you'll realize that war and re-education live on relatively the same level of extremism. Perhaps war is even worse than re-education or concentration camps.

The US slaughtered many soldiers and innocent bystanders in Iraq and afghanistan to end terrorism. The Chinese tortured and re-educated many people to end terrorism.

Which is worse?

You're 100% percent correct. What China is doing fits the definition of "terrorism." My question is:

Is is using terrorism itself as a means to an end to end terrorism worth it?

Keep in mind that the US reaction to 9/11 can in itself be defined as terrorism for what it did to the other countries. War is a form of terrorism. Perhaps it is much worse than terrorism as terrorism uses small acts of violence to produce a big effect while in war the big effect is the violence itself.

My own personal reaction to what happened with the US is that the war definitely went on for too long and the extension to Iraq was unnecessary. But whether a war was needed in the first place is something I'm unsure about.

Imagine you were there on the day of 9/11. How could you not go to war? The American sentiment was the same at the time... it had to be done. What other course of action is there to take?

What was going on through the minds of the Chinese everytime they saw slaughter after slaughter occur by terrorism on their soil? How could you not? What other course of action is there to take? This is a serious question. What in your mind should have been done instead?

The US tried to justify over a decade of slaughter of terrorists and innocent bystanders abroad as a reaction to one terror attack on US soil.

Don't try to play word games here. None of this is actually justified. All countries are guilty of crimes.

The question I am posing people to consider is this: If several 9/11's happened on american soil. Buildings toppled, hundreds slaughtered by terrorism in multiple events with no end in sight and we find that the origin of these attacks rather than being instigated by one man from abroad is instigated by parts of a cultural community within US soil.

What is the action that should be taken here to completely shut down this problem once and for all?

Not a rhetorical question. I want some serious answers, but at the same time I also know that there is likely no solid answer and every action taken has a compromise.

Also keep in mind this is not a justification of ANY chinese action. None of it is justified.

>And please tell me your imagined design to "quell all terrorism" uses a blockchain. If so, do tell-- really, no detail is too small.

You got big balls too. The Terrorism he talks about involves actual human harm and the mass slaughter of hundreds of people in China.

And here you are trivializing what he's talking about into an insensitive block chain insult. Might as well just call him a "nerd."

I'd say your balls are 100x bigger than his.

That is not to say that as atrocious as these actions are, that they can't be successful. There are cases in history where the US has successfully assimilated a different culture. Basically the entire native american population has more or less been assimilated into US culture with some small vestiges of the old ways remaining.

I also agree with you that the US response is stupid for exactly the same reasons. However it is only stupid in retrospect. Bush sent troops into the middle east with the majority support of the American people. He lost that support later or aka the people regretted their emotional response in retrospect.

It is highly likely that if such terrorism attacks occurred on US soil again our reaction would be no different. Immediate armed response and only wisdom in retrospect.

Like the immediate negative response to my post, people react emotionally to situations. They never try to analyze the situation which is always much more complex than it actually appears.

Do you have a source where I can start reading more about this stuff?

Not really. Barely a handful out of 54 minority groups that accounts for ~2% of the population. Most are left alone because most of minorities are already sinicized and "compatible" with broader Chinese society.

> ultimate motivations

This is really simple confluence of two major policy changes.

1. New minority policy, no more minority privileges like family planning exemptions from 2 child policy. Particular focus on mandarin fluency to integrate into broader society. Uyghur, Tibet, Mongolia etc, this is important because 99% of China operates on Mandarin, those who aren't fluent gets left behind. Above minority populations also have large rural populations whose lifestyles (agrarian, herding etc) are being phased out due to new land use policies regarding agriculture (food security). Which means urbanization, so there's also a lot of rural-urban labour transfer programs to up train people, i.e. the entire vocational training west portray as slave labour has been regular program in many provinces for at least 10 years for millions of rural Han.

2. New religion policy, rather _A_ religion policy. There simply was never a proper framework for regulating religion post CCP, leading to all sorts of drama. Not just in terms of prosecution, but illegal temples and other unregulated schemes. Lot's of tomfoolery in explosive growth of Chinese buddhism. Essentially, regulate religion, religion must have Chinese characteristics and conform to socialism.

Not new policy, always relevant.

3. Groups that participate in 3 evils, separatism, terrorism, religious extremism get stomped: Uyghurs, Tibetans, HK, Taiwan when that comes around.

Basically, stop 3 evils, spread mandarin, control religion, vocational training for ultimate development goal: urbanization and better rural land use. This is inevitable byproduct of Chinese population size + land constraints. Mix and match interventions, if you're a very religious, rural Uyghur who speaks no mandarin and have no employable skills, you get everything. If you're a Tibetan herder, you get some mandarin lessons and vocation training. If you're a Mongolia urbnite, make sure your kids know mandarin.

Erdogan may seem unhinged at times, but he's not, his steps are quite rational from an empire-policy perspective.

I think Turkey has too many open fronts (with US, Syria, Armenia, Greece, Libya, Israel, Iran, etc) to have a concrete idea about how to get into the Uighur thing.

But they will raise the issue from time to time, if not for anything else, to have a pressure point on China themselves, they can use to get some shush money or favorable deals.