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Comment by cal5k | Hacker News Reader

Out of curiosity - do you ever drink wine with a meal? Have a beer with friends? Sip coffee discussing exciting new projects or dissecting a problem?

These are all "drugs". Anything we put into our body, food or otherwise, is a "drug" and serves to alter us in some way.

You will always have "external dependencies". You are dependent on food and water to live, social interaction to love and to feel friendship, and other humans to make your life possible through manufacture, farming, and medical care, among other things.

We all have external dependencies. One of the beauties of ingesting hallucinogens is that this is the first realization you will likely have.

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I used to drink occasionally, of course. But I have been consciously cutting my artificially created dependencies wherever I can.

There is a big difference between dependency on food and dependency on beer for example. Need vs. Want. I don't need beer to survive, I do need water. Beer I will use to lighten up, enjoy - water to satisfy thirst and keep the body working. Drugs fall in mind made wants. Taking drugs to set yourself free of bonds and compulsions that kill your being, joy, clarity - that's illogical - you are trading one dependency for other.

Do you eat food for enjoyment?

I am not sure what you are getting at. Why is your focus on giving up - mine is on not letting it matter. I am not claiming to have given up on food - giving up is not what I am trying to do - my focus is happiness with understanding and minimalism. Minimalism does not equate to starving yourself to death. It involves doing everything "needful" without attachment or false pretenses or expectations. Doing nothing extraneous.

I am also not claiming to have been 100% done - it's my steady journey towards that goal that I was sharing. It's all about changing gradually with full understanding instead of looking at it as a means to some end.

> Why is your focus on giving up - mine is on not letting it matter.

That's some trivial reframing -- if you stopped eating food, it would start to matter.

That would be missing the point of course. Read my previous post - there is difference between food and beer that I illustrated.

GP: "and to do so without external dependencies like drugs."

Are you reading this as "without (any) external dependencies, for example, drugs"?

That is a bit silly (as you're trying to point out).

Try "without external dependencies similar to drugs" (i.e., chemical substances that may dramatically alter physical & mental operation and are not at all required to lead a healthy life).

Rule of thumb -- if you find yourself explaining to someone that "you need food and water to live" or something else similarly basic, you've either misunderstood their point, or are talking to a 4-year-old. :)

I disagree. They're illustrative more than condescending, similar to your "rule of thumb".

The idea is that we alter our bodies through external actions in innumerable ways all the time. The idea that "drugs" are somehow different and not part of the human experience strikes me as an oversimplification.

It reminds me of people who don't like things with "chemicals" in them. Chemicals are in everything... and food is the ultimate drug.

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