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Comment by toper-centage | Hacker News Reader

Barely anyone cares about fur products, but people are too stuburn to stop general meat consumption - even if not totally - not matter the cost. Eating more vegan meals is probably the best personal action one can make for the environment. Most other significant actions can only be made on a corporate level.

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If anything, I would say fur gets a disproportionately high amount of attention from animal rights activists, relative to the total number of animals affected. According to Animal Charity Evaluators, an effective altruism group that focuses on animal welfare [0]:

> Of domesticated land animals used and killed by humans in the United States, over 99.6% are farmed land animals, about 0.2% are animals used in laboratories, 0.07% are used for clothing, and 0.03% are killed in companion animal shelters.

I am assuming they are grouping animals farmed for fur in the ‘raised for clothing’ category.

[0] https://animalcharityevaluators.org/donation-advice/why-farm...

I wish more people would give plant based "meat" a try. Some of the sausages and burgers available are mind blowing.

If I don't eat meat for the taste (which is a gross notion to me) but for the nutritional value does plant based substitute provide at least comparable nutrition? Does it have the aminoacids I would get from meat?

The bioavailability is much lower and it’s usually filled with factory oils like soybean oil which is not very healthy.

In the documentary "Game Changer" they said this is FUD by the meat industry.

There are many debunkings of The Game Changers, this is a good place to start: https://youtu.be/jClsLOuQ2DE?t=772

"soybean oil which is not very healthy" - can you provide evidence for this?

There are lots of mouse studies that point to bad metabolic effects from soybean oil consumption. Many of these mechanisms are the same in humans. If one wants to start pulling the metaphorical thread on seed oils, this is not hard to do, as long as one realizes that the companies who sell these things will always tell the consumer they are healthy.

https://news.ucr.edu/articles/2020/01/17/americas-most-widel...

Seed oils did not exist in the food supply before the late 1800s, so the idea that they are this amazing health food, while also being incredibly cheap/profitable to produce and really useful in creating junk food really stretches credulity.

If I want meat I will eat meat. Plants aren't meat. If you want people to eat plants then promote some vegan dishes that are good on their own without relying on comparisons to something else. "It tastes like meat" is not a compelling pitch.

Bacon isn't advertised as "better than plants" or "tastes like plants". It doesn't need to.

BMW doesn't run commercials during NFL games where members of the public think their cars are Chevys.

When you pitch "plant meat" you are implying plants are inferior to meat in some way.

“It tastes like meat” is a good argument when combined with “it’s cheaper than meat.” It falls flat when it’s more expensive than meat.

And even then it only works for people who lack the discretionary income for meat. That's a significant number of people but not everyone. If your goal is to reduce meat consumption in general then the pitch should be "plants are better than meat" rather than "plants can be kinda like meat".

I absolutely agree. Many plants are delicious. I will take eggplant, courgette, cabbage or any number of other delicious plants over a brown mush of unknown plants and other things that tries to pretend to be meat, thanks.

Many people choose to stop eating meat because it's cruel, not because they don't enjoy eating meat. Therefore plant based meat is a fantastic invention :)

I’m in this category and I love that meat substitutes are continually improving

Nobody is arguing that. This thread is about the marketing of plant-based diets to meat-eaters. The reasons for being vegan are well understood. They just aren't compelling to everyone. Cost is just another compelling argument.

Exactly. Meat is meat and happens to taste good. But vegetables can taste good too. I can appreciate them for what they are, and do not need or want them to taste "like meat".

Many people choose to stop eating meat because it's cruel, not because they don't enjoy eating meat. Therefore plant based meat is a fantastic invention :)

"It tastes like meat" is a compelling pitch for the many people who used to enjoy eating meat but stopped in order to lead a less cruel lifestyle :)

Yes, I know. But I am not one if them. "It's less cruel" is not a compelling enough argument for me to stop eating meat. If you tell me about some vegan dishes that are good on their own I will probably start eating them sometimes and my meat consumption will go down as a side effect. I'm literally telling you how you can sell more people on the idea of plant-based diets.

I’ve tried a wide variety of plant based “meat”. I’ve also tried a wide variety of meat. Some of the plant based “meat” is surprisingly good, but “mind blowing” is going way too far, and setting up unrealistic expectations that will end up being detrimental to the goal of getting more people to reduce or eliminate meat.

It's subjective, but I personally find it mind blowing how similar Impossible Burgers or Beyond Sausage are to the real thing. I also find it mind blowing that I can create a vegan version of a British classic ;) sausage, chips, and beans and not be able to tell the difference from the real thing :)

It's amazing how people's subjective experiences can differ so much. Impossible and Beyond are good, but to me they are really, really, really different from meat, to the point that I don't even understand why people eat them: Vegetables are delicious. Why try and fail to make them similar to meat, and simultaneously make it harder to understand what is even contained in the thing you're eating?

Not going to try it as long as it is called "plant based". I want to know what it is. "Plant based" is too fuzzy.

Read the ingredients list :)

This is an important marketing point that is maybe not raised often enough.

Then again, the main non-water ingredient in Just Eggs is Mung Bean Protein Isolate, so...maybe ‘plants-based’ is an improvement

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