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Comment by runamok | Hacker News Reader

> but policy-wise he didn't really make any horrible decisions

You don't feel how he handled the Covid pandemic was a bad policy? The guy's vanity wouldn't allow him to wear a mask to act as a good example to his base. He blatantly ignored most of what his advisors told him and proceeded to advocate quack remedies and dubious advice.

I really dislike the trope of "all politicians lie" when discussing Trump. It's the worst kind of "what about-ism". I do value a president talking to the American people like we are adults and tell us uncomfortable truths. I think Obama tried that on occasion ands it backfired on him in a major way (comment about those that cling to guns and religion comes to mind).

I do agree with you that it's not solely Trump's fault. The republican party quickly fell into step behind him to get their way above any sort of moral high ground they could have hoped to claim in the past.

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Denial of COVID-19 and eventual spats with an educated expert (Fauci), denial of climate change (which we need to act on as a world population), separation of children and parent (which, as a parent, makes me extremely sad). Trump's M.O. was one of denial, ignorance, and stupidity.

Now, one might say these don't affect me. For example, the separation of children and parents of immigrants does not affect you if you are an American citizen who is allowed to vote, has a job, etc. Neither might climate change affect you as it is, or perhaps not enough yet. What did affect us all, in the world, was COVID-19, and the first wave was especially deathly. The nonchalant response of Trump to that issue was what I expected to be an eye opener to the American voter. And honestly, you don't want a president who behaves in such a way to a crisis (also look at how it backfired in Brazil). You want one who addresses the issue, is honest to you, like a gentleman or gentlewoman would.

Every Republican who stood up to Trump, I am proud of you. It takes courage to go against the flow of a powerful lunatic, when everyone follows him. The emperor wears no clothes.

I think that the OP's major point is that Trump was a symptom of the problems in US society, not a cause.

He did say a lot of the quiet parts loud, which makes some oppponents regard him as uniquely bad.

Has everyone forgotten that the Bush administration used similar magical thinking and logic:

> The aide said that guys like me were 'in what we call the reality-based community,' which he defined as people who 'believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.' [...] 'That's not the way the world really works anymore,' he continued. 'We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors...and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do'.[2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality-based_community

I think the real problem here is that the extremes of US politics (mostly the right) have been spreading lies and garbage to their base for years, and eventually, they got a President who believed the nonsense.

As the saying goes, a democracy gets the leader it deserves. Dictators sometimes get democratically chosen. The dictator chosen in Germany between WWI and WWII was also a symptom of a problem. You cannot simply deduce everything towards such one person; however you also cannot simply say he is executing the "Will of the People". We're not in direct democracies; we pick our leader for 4 years, and that leader (plus some others) have a lot of power during those. I used to say we rotate dictators we pick every 4 years, but back then I had a rather dystopian world-view.

As for G.W. "you are either for us, or against us" [1] Bush, people forgive and forget quickly. Though I'd argue he was just a vassal for Rummy, Cheney, et al. For an insight into Bush, watch the movie Vice from 2018. It centers around Dick Cheney, how he became Vice President. Bush successfully managed to get the hardcore Christians behind him, which I suppose was a natural path given the Lewinsky-Clinton scandal. Another good documentary of around that time is Adam Curtis' The Power Of Nightmares which you can find freely and legally on Archive.org.

[1] Bifurcation 101, very polarizing statement.

> As for G.W. "you are either for us, or against us" [1] Bush, people forgive and forget quickly.

> [1] Bifurcation 101, very polarizing statement.

Which eventually (and seemingly irresistibly, though not inevitably) led to "You are either for me, or against me" Trumpism.

> Has everyone forgotten that the Bush administration used similar magical thinking and logic:

> > The aide said that guys like me were 'in what we call the reality-based community,' which he defined as people who 'believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.' [...] 'That's not the way the world really works anymore,' he continued. 'We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. [...]'

That's not really magical thinking per-se, it's more akin to "might makes right" or "he who has the gold makes the rules". The most charitable interpretation I can think of is that it's stating a form of realpolitik first-mover advantage (which in a very narrow sense, isn't wrong).

> You don't feel how he handled the Covid pandemic was a bad policy?

It wasn't good, but it wasn't an outlier compared to the west.

In the last week there have been 16 deaths per million from covid in the USA, down below places like the Netherlands, Portugal, UK, Italy, France, Spain, Poland, Argentina, Belgium etc.

Overall the US has performed as well as the UK, slightly better than Italy Sweden and France, not as bad as Spain and Belgium.

> > You don't feel how he handled the Covid pandemic was a bad policy?

> It wasn't good, but it wasn't an outlier compared to the west.

Only if you don't adjust for density. The US in general (and even most large US cities) are very low density in comparison to Europe, which could/would/should have helped a lot (turns out, poor public transportation infrastructure + suburban tracts of McMansions + high dependency on cars is good for something after all). Instead, that was all negated by idiotic super spreader events and the like.

I think a lot of the deaths can be traced to structural issues in the US, but his failures of leadership during the pandemic made things worse. It's not clear to me by how much and I'm guessing that a lot of people might be in the same situation, which would partly explain why he wasn't punished even more at the booth.

A few months ago it looked like Europe's doing great, but now we're getting hammered in spite of all the measures. The countries that were successful at controlling the pandemic have enacted a series of measures that work very well together, but if one or more are missing, the infections spiral out of control, no matter if e.g. masks are mandatory or certain venues are closed.

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