Ask HN: Can anyone recommend some philosophy reading? | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: Can anyone recommend some philosophy reading?

31 pointste_chris57 comments

So one of my friends has been accusing me of being a Nihilist lately - mainly because I don't really care about the whole Osama thing - and this has made me curious again about philosophy. I know a little bit from various things I learned in university, but I really want to learn more about the thought and writings of various philosophers.

That being said however, I have read Foucault and a couple of other philosopher's texts before and it was difficult. I know that is partially the point, however I figured the intellectually curious HN community must be able to recommend some easier to read, yet still in-depth and not patronising books discussing philosophy?

View on HN

I'm going to say something probably unpopular, given the tone of many of the suggestions popping up, but philosophy is one case where I actually prefer to stay away from the so-called "primary sources". They are typically extraordinarily long and verbose for what they have to say, and if the idea some source is groping for is genuinely new, the fact that they are only in the beginning phases of grappling with it tends to show in the presentation. Plus they will tend to use quirky nomenclature that was not necessarily settled on later. If I'm after an actual understanding of philosophy and not merely enjoying some work for its own sake, it's better to read something that has been distilled over the years to its essence and stripped of its ornamentation, so you can contemplate the essence of the idea on its own.

I scare-quoted "primary source" because in a way, the ideas belong to humanity as a whole and the first person to "discover" a particular school of thought is not always its best advocate; it's primary more in the sense merely of first rather than the journalistic sense of authoritative. I would say the journalism or scientific drive for the "primary" sources is much less important here. To me it would be like insisting the only way to tour the Americas is to follow Columbus' precise route and anything else isn't really seeing the Americas.

I say this not because they are worthless or even a bad idea, but that I really do consider them a bad place to start.

Frankly, you could do a lot worse than to just cruise Wikipedia, and drill down in what you find interesting from there. (Don't skip the drilling down. I'm not saying Wikipedia is a full education on the topic. I'm just saying, it's really not a half-bad way to start.)

Cruising wiki has been the source of most of my philosophical knowledge since leaving university, just looking for some well regarded sources that cover the topics in a little more depth.

Agree completely about your position on primary sources too, though of course there is lots of insight to be gleamed from reading the original texts, I've always preferred reading their interpreters.

The early modern texts site (http://www.earlymoderntexts.com/f_why.html) contains works that have been translated to contemporary English which could alleviate the archaic language problem. From the link:

<QUOTE> My versions are faithful to the content of the originals, but are plainer and more straightforward in manner. I could have made them even plainer, but that would have taken them further than I wanted to go from the stylistic feel of the originals. I love the original texts, and am glad to have spent years wrestling with them in their pristine form. I do wish, though, that through the years I could also have read them sometimes with all my energy going into the philosophy. </QUOTE>

To the OP, two overviews of Western Philosophy (of the analytic variety) I'd suggest are Russell's "The Problems of Philosophy" (http://www.ditext.com/russell/russell.html) and Nagel's "What Does It All Mean?: A Very Short Introduction to Philosophy".

You may find the Dialogues of Plato rather entertaining - http://www.classicallibrary.org/plato/dialogues/

The funny thing is, they were written more than 2000 years ago, and no one has been able to add anything substantial to the subject since then :-)

If you do not mind I would like to pick the Apology:

http://www.classicallibrary.org/plato/dialogues/12_apology.h...

It seems that it is the most accessible text. In my opinion it goes beyond the limits of philosophy and it becomes real poetry.

I found "The Clouds" rather entertaining. Unfortunately the language in the free version is a little less frank...but it's an interesting read nonetheless.

http://records.viu.ca/~johnstoi/aristophanes/clouds.htm

Bertrand Russell - The History of Western Philosophy:

http://www.amazon.com/History-Western-Philosophy-Bertrand-Ru...

That's sort of evil to use as an 'Introduction'...it's like reading the Silmarillion before you read LOTR.

It's substantially simpler and more straightforward than a lot of the primary sources, which makes me wonder what is the analogue of LOTR here.

You did that as well? I thought I was the only person in the entire to universe to do so.

Maybe, but it's a nice overview of a lot of stuff, spanning a long period of time, and it is better - IMO - than telling somebody "go read primary sources for all Western philosophy developed since the Greeks." I suppose one could recommend Frederick Copleston's A History of Philosophy, but it's difficult due to all the untranslated quotes from primary sources. (Well, unless you happen to read Latin, German, Greek, and whatever else.) It's also 9 volumes long, which is quite an undertaking.

I'll second this. It's both thorough and accessible. Sounds like a good fit for what OP is looking for.

At any rate, I think that it is a question of which history of philosophy the OP reads rather than a book on any one philosophy in particular based on his original post...unless he really wants to get back with his friend on that nihilism comment...

Thank you, that looks like a great start! Like I said, I have read philosophy before so I'm not looking for a "for dummies", just looking for someone to do the hard work with the primary sources as my curiosity has been piqued again!

The only problem being that it is Bertrand Russell's view of the history of philosophy

anarchy, state, and utopia: http://www.amazon.com/Anarchy-State-Utopia-Robert-Nozick/dp/...

or, if you find yourself particularly liberal, a theory of justice: http://www.amazon.com/Theory-Justice-Original-John-Rawls/dp/...

thank you for the moment of nostalgia -- CC was a formative class in my college experience: http://www.college.columbia.edu/core/classes/cc.php

I have to say, I've learned more from LessWrong (lesswrong.org) and OvercomingBias (overcomingbias.com) than I have from nearly all of my classical reading. No, it doesn't cover the classics in the same detail, but they do cover rational discourse of philosophy very well.

Wittgenstein's Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tractatus_Logico-Philosophicus) and Philosophical Investigations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_Investigations). The former was a keystone of the Logical Positivist movement (and accepted by Bertrand Russel as LW's PhD thesis). The latter is its comprehensive dismantling (in note form only). Russell thought Wittgenstein had gone mad. We know otherwise :)

I recommend The Apology of Socrates and The Republic, both written by Plato.

The former because it's an excellent introduction to one of the west's most influential figures (Socrates). As a testament to that influence, any philosopher before him is called 'pre-Socratic'. Not to mention Socrates' tale of traveling around Athens questioning the populace after visiting the Oracle is a great story. It wouldn't hurt to follow up with the dialogue Phaedo next, which details the end of Socrates.

The latter for many reasons. The Republic is the most complete statements of Plato's philosophy, in addition to being beautifully written (Plato's writing seems to shine through in just about any translation that I've seen, but the Allan Bloom translation is particularly enjoyable).

Plato, and this book in particular, have been extremely influential in western thought. Indeed, one philosopher wrote that "the safest general characterization of the European philosophical tradition is that it consists of a series of footnotes to Plato." And here in America, the founding fathers often quoted Plato in their pamphlets prior to seceding.

Following the dialogues in the book will take you from discussions on the nature of justice and reality, to the best mode of governance. It serves as a wonderful introduction to what it means to do philosophy and hopefully you find it as enjoyable as I have.

Gilles Deleuze: Something short, Postscript on the Societies of Control https://pdflibrary.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/deleuzecontro...

Or you can listen to it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIus7lm_ZK0

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Gilles_Deleuz...

Friedrich Nietzsche http://www.theperspectivesofnietzsche.com/nietzsche/nphil.ht...

Start with this one : http://www.amazon.com/Story-Philosophy-Opinions-Greatest-Phi...

Will give a picture of different philosophers of their time and then you can pick up whatever philosophy you like to read further.

I meant a top level comment :)

I thought that was just an extremely subtle comment on the source you recommended.

Fyodor Dostoyevsky - Notes from Underground

http://www.amazon.com/Notes-Underground-Fyodor-Dostoyevsky/d...

Gabriel Garcia Marquez - One Hundred Years of Solitude

http://www.amazon.com/One-Hundred-Years-Solitude-P-S/dp/0060...

None of this is actual philosophy.

If you want a fast introduction to lots of different philosophers for a hacker audience I would start with watching The Matrix trilogy and then the documentary Return to the Source about philosophy in the films, while they miss out lots of things it's still pretty good, it's on YouTube here-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ysbczEYvKY

there are also various books about philosophy in the trilogy.

The Matrix and Philosophy: Welcome to the Desert of the Real by William Irwin

Like a Splinter in Your Mind: The Philosophy Behind the Matrix Trilogy by Matt Lawrence

More Matrix and Philosophy: Revolutions and Reloaded Decoded by William Irwin (Feb 8, 2005)

Philosophers Explore The Matrix by Christopher Grau

Taking the Red Pill: Science, Philosophy and the Religion in the Matrix by Glenn Yeffeth and David Gerrold

Also personally a few of the books that I had me think about my philosophy-

Poker Without Cards: A Consciousness Thriller http://www.pokerwithoutcards.com/

Finite and Infinite Games: A Vision of Life as Play and Possibility by James P. Carse

The Uncommon Sense of the Immortal Mullah Nasruddin: Stories, Jests, and Donkey Tales of the Beloved Persian Folk Hero

Also you could check out Robert Anton Wilson documentary Maybe Logic

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gp4dha42ZA

Oh and I'll leave you with some weirdness from Timothy Leary on How to Operate Your Brain

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQq_XmhBTgg

http://plato.stanford.edu/contents.html

The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy

You should ask this question on Metafilter as well. However, some people already have:

http://ask.metafilter.com/71101/What-single-book-is-the-best...

http://ask.metafilter.com/52701/Philosophy-readings

http://ask.metafilter.com/26408/crash-course-in-modern-philo...

Overwhelmingly, with my approval, many suggest reading "The Problems of Philosophy" by Bertrand Russell. It's one of the most accessible and thought provoking books on philosophy I've read. This has already been suggested by someone in this thread with a link to the book (http://www.ditext.com/russell/russell.html).

If you want to get a good sense of what modern philosophy (mainly English speaking) philosophy is all about, then you should work through Scruton's "Modern philosophy". For the most part it's a superb introduction - Scruton is profoundly conservative, but his book is extremely useful as a primer. The strength of this book is that it's organized thematically rather than in terms of the "great thinkers" (although Descartes, Kant, and especially Frege - if I recall correctly - come out as the great heroes)

If you're interested in taking a historical perspective, Anthony Kenny's new history of philosophy books (in 4 parts) are fantastic, and a much better overview than you'll get from Russell - for all it's idiosyncratic worth.

From there you'll be in a position to appreciate both the original texts and other introductions (much of philosophy is getting back to basics, so you'll never be rid of introductions ...)

Hard to beat Arthur Schopenhauer--- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Schopenhauer Even better since much of his work is freely available from sources like Gutenberg and similar...they even have 'Studies in Pessimism' as an audio book!

I would highly recommend Stanford Encyclopedia on philosophy (http://plato.stanford.edu/). Reading original texts of philosophy are hard and require patience. At the same time, it also requires an understanding of previous era philosophers, since most philosophy is built on what was said earlier. Philosophy for the most part, evolves as ideas are built upon gradually by one philosopher after the next, so reading something from the middle and subscribing to it is pretty much baseless and akin to believing in some sort of cult ideology.

The more important part is to understand different arguments, and see which ones really stick out to you; the framework that you choose: metaphysical, analytical, phenomenological etc. should be something that truly inspires your way of thinking.

I thought Sophie's World wasn't too patronising... It's definitely an approachable book

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sophies-World-Novel-History-Philosop...

Foucault and Deleuze are definitely not for beginners. Don't start there.

It really depends what you are interested in. You might check out the Philosophy Bites podcast: http://philosophybites.com/ (now a book too) which has good, short discussions of current issues, and might help you figure out which philosophical questions you are interested in.

If you really want to tackle continental philosophy and have a computer background, I suggest starting with Phil Agre's work, like here: http://polaris.gseis.ucla.edu/pagre/critical.html

A must read that's not on the list yet: On Liberty, John Stuart Mill.

The thoughts/ideas on society and politics are the sort that will resonate with a lot of the HN crowd. They advocate things like free speech, freedom of thought, equal rights for women, a utilitarian view of morality.

Some choice quotes: "actions are right in proportion as they tend to promote happiness; wrong as they tend to produce the reverse of happiness"

"the only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilized community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others."

He was a pretty smart guy and a lot of what he advocated is now baked in to western societies as the norm.

More to the point are there any short books that will get right down to the nitty gritty and spare me all of the examples, 'proofs' and old-fashioned language?

I recommend W. T. Jones's History of Western Philosophy. It has a good combination of excerpts from primary sources plus commentary on those excerpts.

Hume's Dialogues Concerning Natural Religion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialogues_Concerning_Natural_Re...). A tour de force rebuttal of the watchmaker and other creationist arguments. He did not allow it to be published during his lifetime for fear of the response it would provoke. A classic Philosophy 101 text too.

I quite liked "Philosophy as a Way of Life: Spiritual Exercises from Socrates to Foucault" by Hadot http://www.amazon.com/Philosophy-Way-Life-Spiritual-Exercise...

Read this book by Will Durant : The Story of Philosophy. Considered a classic and one of the best introductions to philosophy See : http://www.amazon.com/Story-Philosophy-Opinions-Greatest-Phi...

I've found Alain de Botton interesting if somewhat...um depressing isn't the right word, but somewhere south of exuberant. He is fairly easy to read though, unlike some of the more "academic" philosophy that I've dipped into.

Not sure it counts as philosophy per se, but I also enjoyed Thich Nhat Hanh's Peace in Every Step.

Columbia University offers a Core Curriculum (specifically, Contemporary Civilization class) to address just that: http://www.college.columbia.edu/core/classes/cc.php

You should browse around the other Core Classes, they're good

John Macmurray's "Interpreting the Universe" is a good overview of what philosophy is all about. http://johnmacmurray.org/reviews/interpreting-the-universe/

There's so much out there, trouble is deciding what you're likely to be interested in. The Philosophy Bites podcast (http://www.philosophybites.com/) may give you some ideas.

The Myth of Sisyphus by Albert Camus is extremely readable and a classic of modern nihilistic thought.

I'd also recommend Nietzsche's The Genealogy of Morals. It's not his most famous work, but it's pretty widely acclaimed as his best.

^ I too recommend Camus, 'A Happy Death' as well as 'The Myth of Sisyphus.' I'd also read Milan Kundera's novels- although they are much less nihilistic than Camus it still deals with the futility of life, love, and society etc.

I recommend 'Sophie's World' by Jostein Gaarder, a journey into philosophy.

On the political philosophy side, I'd recommend Milton Friedman's "Free To Choose" documentary: http://www.freetochoose.tv/

Do you want something challenging, don't you? I think there are many good recommendations here but you want "something". Maybe you can try "The Life of Milarepa"

Machiavelli, Richard Dawkins, Ortega y Gasset, Madeleine Albright, Hobbes, John Locke, Jean-Jacques Rousseau, Denis Diderot.

But Machiavelli & Ortega y Gasset is a must read.

There was a good thread on thsis a year or so ago:

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1503137

Amartya Sen - The Idea of Justice

Highly recommendable, a contemporary philosophical book that is significant today. (Decision theory, ethics, political philosophy)

The Metaphysical Club, by Louis Menand, a history of American Pragmatism

The books that made me decide to be a philosophy major:

Zen & The Art of Motorcycle Maintenance

Ishmael

Days of War, Nights of Love: Crimethinc for Beginners

The Way of the Peaceful Warrior

+1 for Zen & The Art of MC Maintenance

Nicomachean Ethics

Candide - Voltaire

just read the apology

Reply on news.ycombinator.com