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Comment by slg | Hacker News Reader

This is sad as it appears to be the beginning of the end of moviegoing as a mainstream pastime. Watching a movie at home simply isn't an equivalent replacement and it has nothing to do with the size of the screen. Going to the theater is a social experience. You simply can't replicate the experience of seeing Captain American catch Thor's hammer in a sold out crowd on opening weekend. Also going to a theater is a purpose driven choice in a way watching a movie at home is not. It allows you to focus all your attention on a movie that simply can't easily be replicated at home.

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> Going to the theater is a social experience.

It's a social experience of frustration for me.. lol.

- "Why the hell does that person think that's acceptable?"

- "Do they have to talk?"

- "Could they eat loud plastic packages anymore?"

- "Why are little kids allowed in this movie?"

- "I guess this person isn't familiar with basic hygiene"

and so on. I'd love to watch movies on the big screen if it wasn't for the social experience i'm used to. Watching movies like A Quiet Place were especially awful.

Don't forget:

"It's just popped corn, why is it so expensive?"

"why does my seat smell so weird?"

"couldn't the tall guy sit one seat over?"

Me and my friends used to go regularly into a cinema. Every week once. Than it became expensive so we went more rarely at some point the choice became narrower and narrower so we stopped because it just wasn't worth the money. I have been 5 times there in the last ~10 years.

It's amazing how different humans can be.

Your grievances aren't a big deal to me, whereas lack of a huge screen and sound system are painful.

I used to see everything in theaters and almost never used Netflix except for their original content.

A Quiet Place was fantastic in theatres. The audience responded to it. Audience noises added to the tension, and we all felt it. People tried to be quiet.

I can't wait for theaters to be back. I just worry that they'll be bought up by the tech giants and studios for a bargain and turned into some stupid membership scheme that only plays a given studio's films. (This is my nightmare scenario, because I can't even conceive of a world without theaters. That's like a world without sports or restaurants.)

I've started going to the local drive in theater and it's actually an amazing experience. It's not the same sound system or crystal clear image, but the bigness is there and movies feel epic again. Tenet was really fun.

Yeah, I agree that the sound system in the theater is painful (do they think we are all deaf?).

I stopped going to theaters after visiting Alamo Drafthouse and literally every person around me was carrying on entire conversations during the movie. My wife asked after the movie was over, "Why didn't you fill out the card and turn those people in?" I replied, "You think they're going to believe me that every person around me was talking? When it's one person, they're the asshole. When it's everybody but me, I'm the asshole."

If a theater chain that prides themselves on throwing people out who talk[1] can't keep people from shutting up then I have no hope it'll ever change. What was once considered extremely rude is now considered commonplace, apparently.

1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1L3eeC2lJZs

Alamo Drafthouse doesn't pride itself on throwing people out who talk. Their entire model of shared food, wine, beer, large distances between seats, and waiters moving around the theater naturally increases it.

They have this card system because they specifically have a massive problem with people talking in the movies.

I can tell you my experiences at Alamo Drafthouse do not match yours, but perhaps you just don't like Alamo Drafthouse?

My complaint isn't with Alamo Drafthouse, it's the modern moviegoer. In fact, I was surprised at how well the Alamo Drafthouse staff handled a ticketing problem prior to that.

I'm right there with you. Granted, most of my experiences in the cinema have been fine, but there are a handful of awful experiences caused by vast differences in mine and others' cinema-going norms. For me, the cinema is simply a tolerable risk/nuisance in order to get the best possible audiovisual experience. I really don't need to hear crowds laugh or gasp—that can be interesting to experience, but I find it entirely separate from my primary enjoyment of film.

> You simply can't replicate the experience of seeing Captain American catch Thor's hammer in a sold out crowd on opening weekend

My enjoyment of this scene had nothing to do with the people sitting in the same room as me

Then you and I are different kinds of people. Don't get me wrong, that moment would have been enjoyable if I watched it for the first time on my phone by myself. However there is a heightening when you get to share some experience with a crowd of people who feel the same way you do. That applies to movie theaters, concerts, sporting events, and numerous other communal events.

But for every moment like that, there are dozens of times I've been in a theater and people have applauded scenes that don't really deserve it or are totally unnecessary. It gets old. Or it's the same people who have seen the movie in theaters three times already and know the lines and jokes by heart.

99% of the time I just want to watch these films at home. I'm glad it's going to happen.

>99% of the time I just want to watch these films at home. I'm glad it's going to happen.

Fair enough. However the difference is that this has already been an option for people like you for roughly the last 50 years. This decision is the first solid indication that going to theater might not be an option for people like me in the future.

My speculation: the movie theater, like the non-movie theater (for distinction I'll use "play house"), will always exist.

However, the density of movie theaters will decrease. Previously most small towns had a movie theater but not a play house. Similarly, movie theaters will likely only exist in the downtown or perhaps a large mall of a densely populated location.

Movie theaters will likely continue their trend to become more expensive, i.e. alcoholic drinks, food, etc. basically become a decent restaurant/bar with an amazing AV experience.

>However the difference is that this has already been an option for people like you for roughly the last 50 years.

You're correct, but for most of the past 50 years, those people have had to wait for months beyond its initial release date in order to legally access it in their homes. That means months of avoiding chatter about it at work or in public that could spoil the movie for them.

>This decision is the first solid indication that going to theater might not be an option for people like me in the future.

I mean, maybe? Perhaps that would depend more on where you live. There will always be a certain portion of the populace that prefers a theater experience, so there will always be that option available. I'd just imagine that there won't be as many theaters operating a decade from now as there currently are.

Huh? This seems like the exact opposite of that. For one of the first times in history, people who would rather watch new movies at home will have that option. And it has only been in the last 5 years or so that accessible home video technology has arguably been somewhat competitive with the cinema (I'm thinking mostly of UHD and HDR displays and content).

That simply means more people value watching at home over the theater experience and are choosing to vote with their wallets this way.

While I get what you’re saying and agree with you overall, it’s still not worth it to me. I’ll never forget when I went to see Deadpool. During the open credits (which has smart ass titles for the people like “An Evil British Bad Guy”), the lady next to me made sure to read every title aloud followed by a “AH HA HA AH HA HA AH HA HA.” It was obnoxious and kind of ruined the beginning portion of the movie as I waited for her next annoying action.

The last movie I saw in a theater – in March, just days before the U.S. took covid-19 seriously – was 2001: A Space Odyssey, which I had never seen before. It was pretty fantastic to see it big screen a 70mm print (not that I can really tell, heh), especially with a packed theater full of longtime fans and fellow latecomers. But I honestly don't know if I could've sat through its long stretches of weirdness if I had Netflixed it in my living room; I was not at all prepared for how long the opening apes scene would go on for, having only previously experienced it as parody in The Simpsons.

Heh, funny you mention this. I saw 2001 in a theater in the 90s, and that may have been the first time I saw it.

I sat down to watch it again on HBOMax recently, and found myself wearing out the skip-10-seconds button on the remote. I even thought to myself, "this movie would never fly today". I then even thought about how I could probably edit it down to about 40 minutes and have the same storytelling, albeit with much less visual candy.

> You simply can't replicate the experience of seeing Captain American catch Thor's hammer in a sold out crowd on opening weekend. Also going to a theater is a purpose driven choice in a way watching a movie at home is not. It allows you to focus all your attention on a movie that simply can't easily be replicated at home.

I can easily focus all my attention on a movie at home, precisely because I also can't easily replicate the experience of crying children, iPhone flashes going off, inconsiderate moviegoers talking and commenting loudly, etc etc. The perfect theater experience is great, but unless you can afford paying to go to a premium theater (where in my experience, issues are less frequent) or at some odd time of day, it's often a gamble whether you'll get fantasy movie experience, or the real-world movie experience. At home, every aspect of the experience is under my control, so I'll never have to worry about the issues I encounter in the theaters, with most of the enjoyment. Despite being a huge fan of moviegoing, there are few experiences I couldn't have enjoyed as much at home. Those ideal experiences can be hard to come by

> Watching a movie at home simply isn't an equivalent replacement and it has nothing to do with the size of the screen.

And thank goodness for that. My own couch, no crying children nor people playing with their phones. I can eat and drink what I want and not overpay for it.

> You simply can't replicate the experience of seeing Captain American catch Thor's hammer

Funny that you use that as an example - I agree 100%. This exact scene was one of the most insane experiences of my movie-going life. The theater went WILD.

I understand that it might actually be annoying to a lot of people, but for me, it was really part of the experience.

I did feel a little corny using a comic book movie as an example because there are plenty of others movies that come to mind that I could point to and earn some film nerd cred. However there is nothing that symbolizes what the loss of theaters would do to populist filmmaking better than that moment. It was the zenith of a series of over 20 blockbuster movies that spanned a decade. It was truly an unprecedented moment in the history of cinema. Watching it a theater full of people who feel the same way is electric.

> an unprecedented moment in the history of cinema.

I really disagree with calling it cinema. It's on the big screen and it's entertaining, in the same way a boxing or football match would be. People would cheer and enjoy those too. But is it cinema? I don't think so, I would say that it's a completely different form of visual entertainment that just so happens to share the medium and venue.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/04/opinion/martin-scorsese-m...

It's cinema.

I really don't see any benefit in having this debate about semantics. You can call it whatever you want. It was an unprecedented moment in the history of theatergoing.

never upvoted somebody so many times in a single thread before. praise be to slg!

Haha, thanks.

really well put

I just like the theatre's speaker system. Unlike some of the others that replied to you, I don't mind the social aspect but only in an apathy and indifference. Until someone's phone comes out and affects my field of view, but I've mostly seen good etiquette there in recent years (last 5).

I prefer spontaneously going to a theatre by myself with no planning, getting a good seat (or lately they've been reserved seats, in the same apps I used to check the movie times), on time, and enjoying the experience uninterrupted. For me, it is a privilege because in suburbs and rural America such spontaneity is not an option, whereas living in a prime area of a city allows for 3-5 or more movie theatres to choose from, multiple simultaneous showing at each one, different sound system and seating and viewing types, etc. A stroll at 11:30pm to a fun bar or club afterwards, or spontaneously leaving an evening social setting I no longer prefer to be in and decompressing in a theatre!

I don't enjoy planning that with other people, and tolerating their movie going routine. But whether I put up with that or am with one or more people that aren't late or picking bad seats, I don't find it a social experience because we are watching the movie, not making jokes the whole time.

Yes, I do enjoy other people's reactions and how that can add to the energy. But it isn't that interesting for me to miss it.

I think the social experience comes from the sorta lead up, and after the movie. I've never only done a movie and then went my separate ways with a person. Dinner before or after, or going to a park to sit and talk about the movie are normal activities. If you're only doing the movie, yeah who really cares if you have other people there or not.

That said, you can do the same thing at home.

> Dinner before or after, or going to a park to sit and talk about the movie are normal activities.

I remember I only did something like that in high school and maybe the beginning of college, due to limited options, especially for awkward intimacy.

At home I don't consider the experience recreational. I've got a pretty decent sound system and I keep the screen at 100 inches or so.

The void will be filled, it always is. Vintage and boutique neighborhood theaters have already sprouted up and begun to take their place. Drive ins have returned. Perhaps Theater proper will experience a resurgence, outside of NYC.

I personally never liked movie going, it was worse than video games. At least with those you can still talk to your friends but with movies you have to sit in complete silence with just about zero interaction for over an hour. Honestly the whole thing felt like an almost complete waste of time.

Yeah you get a shared experience out of it but I'm not sure that's any better than just independently watching the movie

The same thing was said about home video, then video rental, then pay-per-view, then streaming, and now streaming during a pandemic. If there's one thing I've learned in my time on this earth, it's that there are plenty of people like you and I who love the social experience of going to a movie theater.

As an anecdote, my favorite moviegoing experience was when I was watching the Dark Knight during the first showing, at the point where Commissioner Gordon pulls of his mask, a guy in front of me jumped out of his seat and yelled "YEAH!! GORDON!!" The whole audience got a laugh, and it was just a really fun moment that only the thirty or so people who happened to be there got to experience.

Also, no matter how good your living room "home theater" is, it will never replicate a real auditorium that has had actual audio engineers work on setting up.

I agree with this assessment. I believe home streaming new releases will compete with theaters, but I don't think it will completely replace them. Anecdotally, my wife and her friends all love going to the theater to see movies and I expect they will resume doing so post-pandemic. I am a homebody, but my wife is not; so given the option she would prefer to get out of our house and go to the theater.

What I'm curious about is how this will impact distribution arrangements once theaters do re-open. I could see it going one of two ways:

1. If studios start streaming new releases, they can't offer theaters the same kind of exclusive distribution that they could in the past, allowing theaters to demand more favorable terms

2. Since studios now have alternative distribution channels, they don't necessarily need theaters to distribute their new releases, so studios can demand more favorable terms.

I actually think movie theater going is about to become a more social experience. Sure, the Regals and the AMCs might suffer, but the living room theaters? I suspect those will continue to do just fine.

My wife and I saw two or three movies a month in a theater (pre-Covid, obviously). I think I've seen one movie without a waiter in the last decade.

Movie-going as a mall pastime, as an activity to kill time, will probably die. Movie-going at discount theaters available to the working class will probably die.

But theaters will remain. There'll be fewer, and they'll be more expensive, but they will continue to exist.

I was in the college film group undergrad and have stayed in pretty close touch with a bunch of other people of the same era. There's definitely a split between

1.) Those of us (like me) who might go see something in IMAX once a year but are mostly very content to watch at home and

2.) Those who just can't understand not watching films in the theater if at all possible. (Said film group is still around but a bare shadow of its former self. And a number of my friends simply don't understand how today's students could not want to go see the movies on the big screen.)

Movie theaters aren't going away. Once people feel comfortable densely sharing an indoor space again they'll spool back up offering that experience. You only need to taste it again.

The market will likely be much smaller given people have invested more into their home viewing experience, consequently theaters will need to stand out more.

There's no need for theaters to be mainstream. They can be a niche offering and you can still enjoy those things.

That isn't necessarily true. Sure, there will probably always be movie theaters in large markets, but there might not be one in every town. It might end up being like seeing live bands in concerts. You might have to live in a top X market or spend hours traveling to one of those markets to see your favorite band play. That makes it an inherently more expensive and rarer experience even if it is still possible.

It also isn't clear what the ramifications of this will be on the movies that actually get made. While I did mention the MCU in that last comment, I am a big fan of the idea of a standalone 90-180 minute movie as an artform. Those standalone movies make even less sense in a streaming world in which retention is the goal. I would be worried that movies become even more and more like TV than the franchise IP wave of the last decade has already caused.

Small Stand-alone movies make more sense in streaming focused worlds, not less. It’s easier to take a risk on a small movie when the effort needed to watch it is less.

I didn't say "small". Streaming can certainly allow a movie with a $1m-10m budget to turn a profit. I am mostly worried about the mid-budget standalone movies that are targeted at adults. Movies like Arrival or Knives out are recent examples. I'm not sure streaming works to the same extent for a $30m-60m movies like that.

Why not? Adults stream movies.

It doesn't make sense financially. Arrival had a budget of $47m. The general rule is that marketing budget for a movie is 50% of the production budget. That leaves us at $70.5m to break even. At $15 per month, you need that movie to generate 4.7m new subscriber-months to be worth it. Is releasing Arrival on HBO Max going to be the deciding factor for 4% of US households to subscribe for a month? I doubt it.

Then they will have to switch to a pay per stream model.

But they will not go back to theaters only.

There is if someone lives in a smaller community where being non-mainstream reduces offerings or closes the theater entirely.

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