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> "they need me and the company might fail if I leave" Isn't this also some kind of hero mentality that these people enjoy being part of? Eventually they realize it doesn't pay bills but while it does make them feel great and that's the temporary payoff. We all learn from our mistakes. It might also be genuine kinship with their coworkers and this is exactly where the leadership of the said company is extremely smart and evil at the same time: they know how to attract intelligent benevolent nerds to exploit and they know that they'll eventually smarten up and leave but the world is large, There's a sucker born every minute

All in all, the revolving door and the high churn rate won't make a big dent for the company.

What about nurses working 12 hour shifts, helping people survive covid-19 -- now they are needed, or people will die.

But I never heard about them getting any special extra compensation for working that much and also a bit risking their life. Also, nurses are often women. Are they light pattern people getting exploited? Why won't society raise their salaries, so more people will work as nurses or at least not resign -- so they won't need to work 12 h shifts

> it does make them feel great and that's the temporary payoff.

I think in the cases of nurses it can be the opposite: that they'd feel guilt if they quit

> I never heard about them getting any special extra compensation for working that much and also a bit risking their life

Nurse pay has increased quite a bit this year, now reaching $5k-$10k a week...

I’m astonished it’s that high. I’d be interested in seeing a source for your data point.

To be clear, i believe they deserve a high level of compensation it’s just that they’re usually treated badly compared to the societal benefit they provide.

Certainly in the uk the median annual salary is about £26k. The above figures would mean US nurses are earning ~12x more.

Wife is a nurse in the USA, the pay is much higher than Europe, $90k+ in California is common. Crisis nursing has also increased the pay in times of COVID. Additionally, there are specialities within nursing that pay even more, such as nurse practitioner.

That’s much better than Europe and at least a bit more like it. Nurse practitioner i think is about 50k at best in the uk.

I guess the rather different way that healthcare operates between the two regions has a lot to do with it.

Still not as optimistic as the lower bound stated on the parent post which was more like 240k (assuming 48 weeks).

>Are they light pattern people getting exploited? Why won't society raise their salaries, so more people will work as nurses or at least not resign

I would guess that most nurses get into the job because they want to help people, that seems like a really light pattern trait.

Society only very indirectly decides their salaries. At least in most countries right now it's a market mechanism that is ruthless. Of course there are other humans that may or may not have moral qualms. But as long as some people are ready to exploit others they have a pretty clear financial competitive edge (all else being equal).

If nurse salaries are low the economic answer is simple, it's because there are enough (or too many) nurses willing to take this job at that pay level.

The societal answer is not that simple. We actually want more nurses, because they are needed. We also don't want to pay more for healthcare, maybe we can't, America seems to be at the limit here, Western Europe is already close. So if you want more and better paid nurses without paying more, that only leaves shifting money from insurances, hospitals and pharmaceutical/medical equipment companies to nurses.

And to get to do that there has to be some market pressure or regulation.

I read there was a "$2.2 trillion dollar Coronavirus Aid Relief" -- 1% of that could have raised the nurses salaries fairly much, for one year? (In the US)

Edit: now i see in sibling comments to yours, that apparently nurses are getting paid more (in the US)

I'm in Europe actually and seems the decision makers with the money doesn't care that much about the nurses

I tell those kind of people that they are single handedly contributing to a (perceived or real) wage gap.

I coach women that are afraid of being perceived as too assertive in their own organization that their competition got kicked out of organizations for being too cocky until finally landing a high level position where they needed to “make the tough decisions”. The competition doesn't care about losing or being married to a single organization.

This all ties into the breadth of choices some people are willing to perceive and entertain.

> If only HN had a gold star type thing, instead you'll have to settle for being included in my notes.

HN has an often overlooked favourite feature, if that helps. It seems to only show for the comment at the top of the tree you're viewing.

>One of the frequent issues I hit with other people is that they will "block off" a choice before actually evaluating it.

I constantly experience it and don't understand it, personally. I'm not sure if it's a dark trait in and of itself to be able to think through many options though.

I'm sometimes quite frustrated when people will say "we can't do this" before even hearing the end of the sentence. I've always chalked it up to lack of fantasy, but maybe it's a very strong moral compass as you suggest.