Hacker News Reader

Comment by bryanlarsen | Hacker News Reader

Criticizes California for excessive regulation, then moves to a state where it's illegal for Tesla to sell its cars.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_US_dealership_disputes#T...

"These laws make it illegal to buy a car from Tesla in person, at a Tesla Gallery. Thus, all Texas orders are taken via the internet or over the phone. Texas residents can still easily buy a car from Tesla, but the purchase is handled as an out-of-state transaction and must be completed before the vehicle ships to Texas."

Tesla is not your regular dealership. Car purchases are made online anyways.

This. All of our Teslas were bought online, and we showed up at the gallery or service center only to take delivery ("here's your [fob|rfid key] and we'll auth the vehicle in your Tesla account").

Carvana has a similar model for used vehicles, and they are very successful with the demo they cater to (buy online or in app, with a test drive period after purchase if you want to return the vehicle). People hate the traditional dealer sales experience apparently (half tongue in cheek, it's terrible, it really is).

I wish all brands had this. I despise the dealer sales experience.

My understanding is that car dealerships and the laws around them are essentially a sales union. They are in place to force manufacturers to leverage local sales people instead of their own.

It blew my mind when I went to a dealership that had radio ads about their great lease deals on a Chevy Volt. I walked in, told them I'd like to lease a Chevy Volt and that I was very excited about the deal.

They spent an hour trying to talk me into other cars and the sales people didn't know the first thing about what made the Volt so special. GM apparently didn't either since they discontinued it.

From what I've heard, dealership don't like electric cars because they make their money off of maintainance and EVs require less.

give it time .... all dealerships as we know them will be dead in a few years.

Purchasing a vehicle is at the top of my list of "least favorite responsibilities as an adult".

I'd buy a car through Carvana (in principle), but I don't recall the prices being very attractive. It was the same or slightly more than what was available at traditional local places.

It appears folks are willing to pay a premium for a superior experience.

Exactly. It's been awhile since I've bought cars, but I bought my last few cars through Carmax for this reason. The prices were not the lowest, but were reasonable. The process was about as simple as it could be though.

Contrast this with my first car buying experience where the 'finance guy' told me to 'get the fuck out of his office' when I explained him how he was manipulating the loan date payment, and price to charge me more. The deal still got done, but it was with the sales guy running between me and the finance guy basically relaying me saying no.

Having gone through it, the Tesla process makes it super easy to buy a car.

I'd rather a traditional dealership than having to log into my car. When I got my Skoda Citigo it was a pretty painless experience, aside from the fact that motorised wing mirrors weren't standard.

Yeah its weird that Texas is "different" in this regard? The process is the same even in other states; I've never seen a Tesla store with a stock of cars just there on-site ready to buy that day, you always order online (or, I suppose, the salesperson orders online for you, and maybe that's illegal in Texas? I dont know).

And, frankly, this is how most new car purchases work. Every one I've purchased or been a part of; they don't end with you driving off the lot in a new car, they end with you waiting a week or two for the car to be delivered. I imagine some dealers have a limited stock of new cars in common configurations, and you could drive off in one of those, but that's the minority of purchases in my experience.

Most new car purchases do come from dealer stock.

Around 15% are factory-ordered - typically luxury brands. An additional 20-25% are sourced from other dealer inventory, or an upcoming shipment that is already specced and on the way. The rest are on the lot and ready to go with the buyer. Dealer lots are huge in most of the country. Endless seas of near identical cars with minor variations in options and colors.

That's just saying they have a technological workaround to the policy of banning in-person sales at Tesla galleries, not a refutation of the reality of the laws themselves. If Tesla started eating heavily into Texas car dealerships' sales, don't be surprised if the dealers' associations show up at the state capitol demanding more teeth in the law.

When you mention excessive regulations you might want to look at all regulations, not just cherry pick one of them to make a point.

You know what? I think that might be the parent comment's point.

Then perhaps they should take their own advice

Yes, perhaps also Texas regulations prohibiting marijuana, assisted suicide, proper sex education in public schools, no liquor permits for public traded companies, restrictions on mail in voting, etc.

You make it sound like restrictions on mail in voting is a bad thing.

Restrictions on mail in voting are a bad thing. See Washington state and Oregon for how voting should be done. They’re still missing ranked choice/star voting, though.

IIRC, mail in voting increases fraudulent voting at a rate of about 1 vote per 100,000 vote increase in the participation rate.

Restrictions on mail in voting are only a good thing if you want to restrict the participation rate.

Remind me of the abortion restrictions in Texas again ?

From your own link:

> Texas residents can still easily buy a car from Tesla

Yeah, the regulation seems silly, but presumably it's a trite inconvenience compared to California shutting down various Tesla operations. Certainly we can't conclude from this one example that Texas and California are comparable with respect to "excessive" regulation.

...through dealerships. You can still buy them online, which is what we did. It was an annoying but fairly easy process.

Interesting... do you think it could be part of a strategy to get Texas to change this law?

I doubt Tesla really cares all that much. The link says Texans can easily buy Teslas from Tesla, but they have to complete the paperwork before the car ships to Texas. It seems like a very minor inconvenience compared to dealing with the various California regulations and bureaucrats.

Tesla is building a factory in Texas. What does the law mean whenever the car itself was made in the state? Does it need to leave the state and then re-enter? Serious question. Teslarati reported that's the case, so if they're right, I assume Tesla cares very much about the law changing, as it would save them quite a bit of money:

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-cybertruck-sales-direct-sale...

I wonder how that changes when the vehicles (like cybertruck) are manufactured in Austin, TX.

I doubt it. Car dealerships are still very politically powerful.

They are major contributors to state legislative and congressional races, support local charities, etc and employ lots of well-paid local staff.

As electric becomes more common, that will tip as manufacturers buyout dealerships. But that will take awhile and bigger dealers are gobbling up little dealers in the meantime. IMO, the dealers will be less of a big deal as they consolidate into regional players. Dealers were a barrier to Tesla selling cars at all -- they have traction now. Plus, the Uber-consolidated dealerships will continue to consolidate operations and shed overhead costs in the process) Even Coca Cola still has 60-70 independent bottler franchises.

I doubt car dealers will have much of a future in a world were you can just hop in a robotaxi for very little money and not have to spend on parking, fuel, maintenance, registration fees, etc.

I sold my car in 2018 and have been living car-free in Los Angeles since then. For the times they are a-changin'...

Unless you have quite a nice car or otherwise live in some logistical niche, rideshare is going to be quite a lot more expensive than car ownership. Some people will be able to replace some of their driving with public transit, walking, or cycling, but most people can't because public transit isn't feasible and commuting distances are too great for walking or cycling (this is especially true for people who aren't in peak health or who have families or pets or anything else that they need to regularly transport). Until "robotaxis" actually refers to fully-autonomous taxi services, I don't think we're going to see wide-scale movement away from car ownership.

This is not the case for likely 90% of the country. Note that I'm currently in Chicago where we have much better public transit (in addition to rideshare) options than you do in Los Angeles, but most of America doesn't have the population density to support it.

I'm in Chicago as well. Yesterday I had to go downtown during rush hour and Lyft wanted $15. I'm not sure if this is normal (although I believe we have a hefty tax on rideshare to downtown, at least during rush hour), but at that point it's significantly cheaper to pay the $10/day or whatever that the parking garages charge (of course this isn't factoring in the cost of ownership nor is it considering other transit options).

They have been trying for many years now. Its a consideration, but a pretty small one in terms of all the things that need to be considered.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com