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Comment by unwind | Hacker News Reader

So ... If "cloud computing" is the new paradigm that Google works in, and that's why they should avoid the old "peer to peer" paradigm that Skype is using, where does that leave "client/server"?

I had serious problems making sense of that. I guess they mean that since Skype is peer to peer, that leaves too few places for Google's server-oriented infrastructure to inject advertisements?

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Actually, I had a major problem with that as well, especially this sentence: "He concluded that one of Skype's key assets -- its peer-to-peer technology -- was a mismatch for Google, which worked on the newer paradigm of cloud computing."

I think the underlying problem is voice-recognition technology. I read somewhere (sorry, no link right now) that Google is using Google voice to hone in on their voice recognition technology, which we are now starting to see in Android. P2P kind of side-steps the Google servers (or, to phrase it more appropriately, avoids the MITM), thereby not providing any real use to them.

Remember, Google's business model is data. Control, collection, mining of lots and lots of data. P2P just doesn't facilitate that, so that's why Google chose to reject it.

"Cloud" is the new "client/server." The "cloud" is the server and an app (browser, specialized app, w/e) on your computer (desktop, smartphone, w/e) is the client.

It's just that the server part is now [theoretically] a bunch of servers in different locations [theoretically] to allow failover. Theoretically.

And yes, I'm almost certain that's Google's problem with the Skype model: no convenient place to stick ads. (OK, sure, the client app could just get ads from Google, but if the p2p voice protocol works w/o Google servers, you can write a client that avoids the ads.)

You can't create an alternative Skype client.

Protocol is closed and little progress has been made for reverse-engineering -- which I think would also be illegal, since the data is encrypted and then you're at odds with the DMCA (IANAL btw -- the DMCA grants a safe harbor for reverse engineering, but that hasn't worked out so well for DRM).

To my knowledge there is no alternative Skype client, not even for the IM part -- Pidgin has integration with the official Skype client and piggybacks on top of it. If you don't have the Skype client installed and running, Pidgin doesn't work.

P2P in this particular case is really not the freedom-giver technology that allows you to workaround Skype's servers. If Skype wishes to serve adds to you, or to track you, there's really not much you can do about it.

which I think would also be illegal, since the data is encrypted and then you're at odds with the DMCA (IANAL btw -- the DMCA grants a safe harbor for reverse engineering, but that hasn't worked out so well for DRM)

I believe the DMCA outlaws circumvention of copyright enforcement mechanisms, not encryption. I don't see why the Skype protocol would have any such mechanism.

I hacked on Pidgin a while back and people talked about the Skype plugin a bit. From my understanding, the issue is that the Skype code is very obfuscated and reverse engineering the protocol would be very difficult - apparently, no one with the ability and time to do that has stepped up thus far.

This is a fascinating analysis of Skype from a few years back:

http://recon.cx/en/f/vskype-part1.pdf

http://recon.cx/en/f/vskype-part2.pdf

Looking at how complex it is, and considering that Skype probably have more obfuscation and crypto ready to roll out if anyone cracks it, I can see why nobody's implemented a compatible client:

Security by obscurity works, if you're willing to respond with resources, and the economics do not motivate an overwhelming horde of opponents. There are definite economic reasons why Skype can make it work with just software and Sony can't even with help in hardware.

Another reason not to implement a compatible client is there's little need. Skype exists on the 3 major platforms (Windows/OS X/Linux), and what advertisements exist are pretty unobtrusive. If Skype where to get more aggressive with their advertising, or the client quality became unbearable, I suspect there would be more effort to develop competing clients.

Edit: this is pointed out in the linked slides.

You can also get rid of Google ads in your browser, so I doubt that's a major issue.

no ads in google voice...

I assume my Google searches and Gmail inbox influence the ads I see when checking my email and searching the web respectively.

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