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Comment by patrulo | Hacker News Reader

M2cs or M5c are still by far the best cars in their class. While I'm not a fan of BMW's new design language (think the 4-series, or the iX), nor their move to subscription-based features, it's still my go-to brand. Other (non-exotic) brands are either downsizing (2.0 engine in the new C63 AMG for gods sake) or going fully electric – and I like my v8 rumble in the morning.

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Not sure why you're being down-voted, the M2 and the M5 are among the best driver-focused cars being made right now (a dying breed, those driver-focused cars, but that's another discussion), but that still shouldn't excuse BMW for dick moves like this one (I consider it a dick move).

The Ms are overweight pigs, not drivers cars.

Have you seen an M2 with sticky tires roar on a racetrack?

I’ve seen them getting lapped by the 700 lb lighter Porsche Cayman.

2.0 engine in the new C63 AMG for gods sake

This sounds bad until you realise that over the past 20 years manufacturers switched from cast iron to full aluminium blocks, which have over twice the thermal conductivity.

There's no need for 4.0+ displacements anymore, because they were only there because of the low (tolerable) power density of iron block engines.

Sure, turbos etc. sound like a hack and a hack they are, but the era of V8 rumble is gone for good.

All this will be replaced by electric anyway.

> Sure, turbos etc. sound like a hack and a hack they are, but the era of V8 rumble is gone for good.

tell that to the new c8 corvette.

anyways, the C63 AMG is a $70,000 car. for that price you should be able to get a v8 or at least a v6, even if it makes no sense. lots of cars that are way cheaper still have more than four cylinders.

The value of an engine is not determined by the number of cylinders. You aren't owed a certain number just because you payed a certain amount. An argument can be made that v8+ are capable of being more sonically pleasing, but it ends there.

Can’t speak to the technical argument. I can agree with you that my dads Lexus sc400 from 2000 had a great sound and super smooth driver (v8). That engine was a workhorse... over 500k km and still rocking. The rest of the accessories were falling apart (door handles, leather) but that engine was rock solid.

The value is determined by the customer. An electric motor is, in every respect except its inability to use energy-dense fuels, pretty much perfect. Just not very interesting.

As a toy, an ICE has value. They shouldn't work at all! it's a ridiculous idea. It's quite cool that they do anyway.

yeah no one buys an amg because it's a sensible vehicle. these are the folks who sell a 600 hp station wagon.

I would argue that the station wagon is a great idea. A car like that allows enthusiasts to buy something that isn't completely impractical for most non-enthusiast things.

keep in mind this is a vehicle that starts at $110k. you could buy a nice sports car and a practical family vehicle for that money. I do know a guy that has one and uses it as a daily. he loves it, but he also owns a cayman and a forester, so it's not exactly the "one car that does it all".

2021 Corvette Stingray (6.2l V8), 2021 Dodge Challenger (6.4l V8), 2021 Camaro SS/ZL1 (6.2l V8), 2020 Mustang 5.0, various trucks - there's still plenty of modern car with V8, often even N/A V8s.

People buy cars like that because they like the V8 rumble. I have an older 3.0l N/A I6 BMW (N52), and not because I couldn't have gotten a more feature-loaded Honda for the same price.

Ford recently rolled out a completely new big block v8 engine family for their trucks and vans. OEMs don't do that kind of thing unless they expect to crank them out for 10-20yr.

I think it's important to point out that all those cars come from a country where gasoline is cheap and emissions rules lax. The rest of the world, for the most part, moved on.

Indeed, in my country I'd say a 1.6/1.8 is "standard" and anything over a 2.4 uncommon. Plenty of 1.2s/1.4s around for students and the budget sensitive too, and even some 1.0s (current model Nissan Micra, Honda Civic)

There's no need to pay 10x when you can buy Dacia Logan. Yet people still paying it to get something they don't have in Logan. Big bad engine is one of those features I guess.

There is a big difference between a BMW or BMW with M sport packet, and a BMW M.

The BMW Ms are actually developed by a different company (the BMW M company, which is different from the BMW company).

For some reason people think of them as being extremely similar, but anybody that has driven a BMW 3xx and a BMW M3 knows that there is a world between them.

Isn't BMWs V8 rumble recorded and piped through speakers?

There is a clip of the M4 with the system on and later off: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gB0apslghXU

I might be a bit biased because my first car was a used M3 e36 back in the 90s. My wife just bought the M5 last year, admittedly one of the best driving experiences in recent years.

The M2CS may be a great driver’s car in its class but not the best in its price bracket (at UK prices).

welcome to the future, subscription services are what a lot of car makers moving too. if anything one of the first was OnStar which has some monthly fees that will make you wince.

what worries me is that app integration may be a fee based service for some cars.

As for BMW, I owned one and enjoyed it very much but the running commentary on BMW is that you own them only while they are under warranty.

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