Comment by vmception | Hacker News Reader

Comment by vmception | Hacker News Reader

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Hi, I skimmed the bill and some explanations after finding out about it last night.

I feel like this bill doesn't actually change anything. Look at your example: "Someone from Russia could create a BVI company that opens a Delaware LLC and gain near-total transactional anonymity."

Your bill exempts every nominee or person paid to form the business. That is completely common practice, and also benefits the exact people you made this bill for?

Let me be absolutely clear, when I think about MY user experience, nothing has changed? If my registered agent formed the business with one of their employees names, or if my lawyer did that, in both circumstances there would never be a report to the Treasury for them, and there would never be a report for me.

I don't actually want a burdensome regulation, but I also don't feel Congress actually cares about this since this was just a rider into an actually politically charged bill, so I don't mind talking to you about it:

How does this bill accomplish anything if it exempts everything that real people actually do, let alone anyone trying to mask ownership and control.

> Your bill exempts every nominee or person paid to form the business

Yes, we already know who the legal owners of entities are.

Under this bill, if you pay a registered agent to form an LLC you control, your name is recorded. That is not presently done. It’s been pushed back on, particularly by the real estate industry, for decades.

> Under this bill, if you pay a registered agent to form an LLC you control, your name is recorded.

Okay I misread that in the law review documents. So anyone acting on behalf of the beneficial owner is not reported, but the beneficial owner still is.

This is in line with some other countries that are vying for respect by reforming.

I don't mind it being on-file privately with the government, and this bill doesn't change anything with publicly perusable databases, nor create a new one.

> this bill doesn't change anything with publicly perusable databases, nor create a new one

Correct. I have seen arguments for such databases, and might support it in limited cases (e.g. for public officials). But I think, personally, beneficial ownership information should be afforded privacy similar to tax returns.

In what part of the formation process do you feel this report is to be made?

Let's say if I walked to the secretary of state in Wyoming and paid them cash to form a new entity, where is the Treasury report supposed to be done? Is there a notification somewhere?

Does the Federal Government even have a way of knowing when a new entity is created in all of the incorporated states and other semi-autonomous regions? Not all the states have free public databases.

Is this bill going to sanction the states until they give information automatically about newly formed and existing entities?

Does this apply to indigenous protectorates? Navajo nation has incorporation statutes, and literally any of other the 560+ tribes could as well.

> But I think, personally, beneficial ownership information should be afforded privacy similar to tax returns.

Out of curiosity, could you explain why? What would be the risks if this information were publicly available?

That your friends/neighbours/family members could snoop at your finances. This can fracture relationships.

It's the same reason why i would want my medical data to be private, but available to relevant gov't agencies for public health reasons.

> But I think, personally, beneficial ownership information should be afforded privacy similar to tax returns.

I agree. Not only similar, but exactly the same.

Only I'm Swedish.

What if a lawyer hired by a company is the person initiating the registration?

Company -> hires lawyer to register Company2 -> Company2 -> hires lawyer to register Company3 -> etc.

> What if a lawyer hired by a company is the person initiating the registration?

Beneficial ownership is an old legal concept. It traces through entities to natural persons. Until one gets to the controlling humans, the search keeps running. It is a powerful and costly tool.

So short answer: no, daisy chaining lawyers and entities wouldn’t hide you.

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