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Comment by rmk | Hacker News Reader

It appears to me that there is a huge electorate that is disgruntled and has felt that the people in power have ignored it for too long. If such a large number of people have actually vandalized Congress (didn't they do something like this to the Michigan Statehouse) to make their displeasure known, then they must genuinely feel that the normal method of registering protest, i.e., voting, has ceased to function for them. The overall smug and condescending tone of the mainstream and social media barons and the professional class only exacerbates this feeling.

How many of us here has had to face years of despair because of job loss, and loss of social standing due to globalization and corporate greed? Do we have any genuine hope (and more importantly, need) of understanding this 74 million?

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Those 74 million people were quick to taunt the other side for being disappointed in losing the 2016 election, they like to wave flags that say 'fuck your feelings' as some weird badge of pride. Why again are we supposed to be understanding of them? Perhaps they are, in fact, just jerks and it's okay to say so.

Was that before or after many high-level Democrats and Celebrities denounced Trump and committed to resistance on Nov 3, 2015.

4+ years of no-quarter given raging against Trump has set the tone for the future of America. I don't think anyone is going to like that future.

So it was only in 2016 that the opposition party decided to drag their feet in any way possible? Not 2010? And it was only in 2016 that the tone was set for America, not when the current sitting president was raging for years about how the previous president was not a real American citizen?

Grab a mirror. This has been building for a lot longer than 4 years.

If the Left didn't want the Right to be mean to them maybe they shouldn't have called them nazis and deplorables.

Pretending Obama wasn't born in America is pretty deplorable

Ruining a teenager's life because he smiled as someone screamed in his face was pretty deplorable. We could do this all day but his point is that Americans have to grow up and start respecting each other.

I'm always struck by how fast the rhetoric shifts when one side loses a big election. How quickly we care about everyone being civil, and respecting one another, when we are no longer holding the position of power.

I find this comment interesting simply because it's the exact opposite of my FB feed. People there accuse leftists of calling for civility now that they have won, when they haven't been civil until this moment (their words, not mine)

I guess that's the beauty (maybe not quite the right word...) of two large groups of people attacking each other. The odds are good that if you look, you will find someone on the other side saying exactly what you want to record them saying.

A majority of registered Republicans have told pollsters they believe Obama wasn't born in this country many times since at least 2012. How many Democrats care about the outrage incident you cite, using empirical evidence?

Out of curiosity what event are you refering to?

I can step in: Covington High School student

Bearing symbols that represent the depression of Jews in Germany, symbols that have been banned there, is being Nazi.

I think both sides have a problem with assuming everyone on the other side fits a single mold. Apparently that mold fitting the more radical elements of the other side.

Actually, one of the magical things Trump did was prey on a lot of individuals individual desires while getting them to ignore all the stuff he promised to others that they don't agree with.

But anyway, just because you voted for somebody doesn't mean you agree with them on everything. That's as true for the left as it is the right.

So you're basically saying that we should behave like them and wave 'fuck your feelings' flags as well.

> understanding this 74 million

You believe you have no hope of understanding nearly half of all voters? You think 74 million people all think the same?

The 74 million are mostly conservatives. I don't think they are all the same, but as a group they do have at least a few defining issues that they agree on?

Sure, but don't believe that as American's there are a few defining issues they agree on along with just about everyone else in the country? Don't you think there are many things they don't agree on?

Heck, GOP got jack-all done in the first two years because they apparently don't agree all that much.

>It appears to me that there is a huge electorate that is disgruntled and has felt that the people in power have ignored it for too long

They literally had 4 years of their president sitting in the oval office, during 2 of which they controlled the legislature as well. If they felt ignored by the people in power, then it was THEIR people that THEY elected that were ignoring them. And, apparently they were not dissatisfied with them because they by and large voted for them AGAIN in 2020.

>then they must genuinely feel that the normal method of registering protest, i.e., voting, has ceased to function for them

No, let's just call them what they are: sore losers.

You've been using the site primarily for political battle and breaking the site guidelines repeatedly. We ban accounts that do those things, and have asked you several times in the past to stop, so I've banned this account.

If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

How do you suggest we do that without disrespecting the far greater number of Americans who voted in good faith in a free and fair election for Joe Biden? Democracy makes losers of us all once in a while, we need to learn to live with it.

It's obvious that most of the people who voted for the losing side did not show up at the protest. An even smaller fraction breached the Capitol Building.

It's interesting that you say that Biden voters feel disrespected because Trump voters protested something in the way they did. When BLM protesters vandalized (mostly poor or middle-class people's) shops, do you think it was reasonable for non-BLM people (most Trump supporters) to be outraged? If not, therein lies the problem.

BTW, there were violent riots when Trump was elected president, including in Oakland, Portland etc.:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Oakland_riots https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Portland,_Oregon_riots

Perhaps I should rephrase, what are the specific policy goals you would like to see that could be pursued to help restore faith in the electoral process?

I think if there is a move to radically improve the transparency of voting no matter the method, it would restore confidence in the electoral process. Vote by mail was the main culprit, and it is easier to game voting by mail than in-person voting. So people have valid grounds to doubt the validity of elections, particularly because margins were thin (as they almost always are, but they arouse much greater suspicion when an unprecedented number are voting by mail). That is a process that each state needs to undertake, which is easier said than done. As with the covid response and vaccine administration, federalism shows its structural deficiencies again.

How is voting by mail "easier to game"? You just seem to be repeating talking points. I don't think you have any actual solutions, because you don't have any actual issues identified.

Judging by the overall tone of your comments, you don't have any actual intent of engaging in any sort of discussion. I will try nevertheless.

Mail dumping, interception and modification of ballots, just plain errors in ballots or failure to mail them (these last two are not in the 'game the ballot' category, but they do happen with mail-in balloting) all occur in almost every election. Even if they do not materially change election results, they affect the perception of the legitimacy of results. The perception is as important as the reality of the process. Any law that helps improve the perception should be welcomed.

> Mail dumping, interception and modification of ballots, just plain errors in ballots or failure to mail them

Did any of this actually happen?

> ...they do not materially change election results...

So... what’s the problem again?

These deficiencies have a clear cause: Donald J. Trump.

I would bet Federal bureaucracy would have hampered say a Clinton response, but Trump refused to lead, take even the most basic federal action, and he basically doesn't care beyond testing numbers affecting his election. He specifically withheld supplies and support to D states until 'they have to treat us well' e.g. be a sycophant on tv.

Maybe voters would have confidence in mail-in-voting if Republicans & Trump didn't spend a year attacking it and spreading politically motivated lies.

VBM is secure and many studies have shown there is very very little fraud.

My state Colorado has been sending ballots to almost every voter for years and it works. A Republican SOS helped craft and refine the system.

used by like something 94% of our voters, clearly trusted and used widely on both sides. Notice it doesn't get attacked by legitimate Republicans here

https://www.5280.com/2020/05/no-fraud-isnt-rampant-in-colora...

I used Vote By Mail myself and I also agree various studies and articles that say that fraud doesn't materially affect elections. But why shouldn't steps be taken to improve VBM transparency and voting transparency overall to restore confidence in the process regardless of method? "Works", "Works Transparently", "Works Verifiably" are all different degrees of transparency that imply different levels of confidence, right?

What are some steps to make it more transparent? That critically both protect secret ballot and not suppress the vote?

Republicans have been ruthlessly effective here and there are plenty of laws that are passed under the guise of 'anti-fraud' but really are to suppress the vote usually in favor of southern Republicans. Copy of license, very very restrictive rules on who can request a ballot, reducing drop off locations etc Same playbook for a century, different rules

> non-BLM people

I strongly suggest you stop and think for a bit about what this means.

This refers to people who chose not to protest on the streets. Not sure what you're taking exception to here.

I chose not to protest on the streets but I would still consider myself a BLM person

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