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Comment by korethr | Hacker News Reader

I can't help but wonder if such an attempt would even work.

Unless I am misunderstanding the culture that makes an open source ecosystem work, a free and open exchange of information and ideas is one of those fundamental things. When a thing is broken, sometimes you have to tell an authority the horribly embarrassing fact that the thing is broken. With the CCP controlling all information flows and what is or is not fact, then ISTM that pointing out that The Peoples' Authentication Protocol is fundamentally flawed and insecure could get one disappeared just as likely as it would get the protocol fixed.

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There are a lot of people in China, and most don't speak good English. Free exchange is thus already limited before we even get into censorship. The large number of people in China means they have the potential to create a new ecosystem. They just need to get a few of their own people to start it, and then let things grow. I don't know if they can pull it off, but they have enough people to at least make a good try at it.

Of course they can then censor it as desired.

I fear it can work. I think despite our distaste for some of the censorship that will occur when it comes to social control and etc, ultimately the meat of github and open source would be entirely functional within a CCP run context.

Bug reports about a particular project? Provide a particular leader isn't embarrassed I don't expect anyone to care. I suspect they'd let the engineers fight it out and only care about the output.

If anything social media faces bigger censorship concerns in China... but social media does just fine...

I think you're right. There's been this long held belief that you can't create the level of prosperity seen in the U.S. and Europe without having a free(ish) and open society. China is showing everyone that there's another way to do it. I don't know why people keep underestimating China and the CCP.

I'm not convinced China is anywhere near showing what you describe. I do think some systems like github can still be productive.

It’s worth pointing out that almost everything China has accomplished during this period of growth has been about aggressively adopting practices and technologies that were developed in Europe and the US.

What happens now that they have succeeded at this, remains to be seen.

I think this is just following the chain of what's just been happening in China with software.

Americas/Europe has Google? We'll make our own that the CCP can control Americas/Europe has Uber? We'll make our own that the CCP can control. Americas/Europe has GitHub? ...You see where this is going.

Those are all US companies. What does Europe have to do with them?

And like it's been noted many times before here, had Europe banned US companies like China had, maybe they would have a stronger software development culture, and they could control their own data instead of handing over everything to the US.

I'm pretty sure there's gonna be a fork of all major projects on GitHub on that site, so that developers inside the wall can use the site exclusively. Chances are the forks are going to be updated with actual code from GitHub from time to time.

If you go back to the rhetoric of the Clinton-era the belief was that the Internet and Capitalism would "free" China from authoritarian rule. Instead, the authoritarians managed to co-opt both and gain further leverage abroad. They can't do everything, but don't bet against the Chinese accomplishing a lot of what the West thinks is based on "free and open exchange" via responsive authoritarianism.

>> If you go back to the rhetoric of the Clinton-era the belief was that the Internet and Capitalism would "free" China from authoritarian rule.

That was just a cover to enable outsourcing american jobs to a country without a level playing field.

Corporations and government sold out the US. The only guy to stand up to that just got run out of office and deplatformed.

The dems had Tulsi, but shes getting dissed by her own party already.

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