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Comment by TechnoTimeStop | Hacker News Reader

I just don't see how any network can even compete with https://na.chargepoint.com/charge_point

Are we saturated yet? Demand forecast? https://www.plugshare.com/

There seems to be a rather large number of charging stations in America already...

Compared to the number of gas stations, this is still rather low. Since you actually have a lot less throughput at a charge point versus a gasoline vendor, we'll actually need more charging stations than gas pumps.

I'd guess actually we'll need significantly less charging stations than gas stations at full electric conversion being that you can fill up at home and its most desirable to do so time and cost wise. I have an electric car and use a charging station about once every 3 months when on a long trip.

Except most people charge at home, and most driving is local.

You only need charging stations when traveling long distance.

Depends on the locale. Plenty of us city folks don't have a 'home' for our cars to charge in. Our cars live their whole lives on the road. And quite a few suburb-dwellers seem to park their vehicles on the streets as well.

The thing is as adoption increases there will be less charging stations and just spots with EV charging whether its in a home, apartment or street parking. I think the idea of a station where you go to fill up with electricity or gas will become obsolete - it'll be ubiquitous as anywhere can effectively be a gas station for very little investment comparatively.

I suspect there will definitely be concentrations and branding around charging stations. As I wrote above, users of fast charging stations will likely be heavily oriented toward those that put the most miles on their vehicles everyday- commercial drivers. I predict that lunch spots will end up with a lot of charging stations- drivers will do half a day's work, charge the vehicle during lunch, then be able to finish up the day without worry. The restaurant/charging station association works will for travelers.

This is likely true even once we get autonomous vehicles- people may not drive the vehicles anymore, but they will still be loading/unloading, selling, or fixing things at the destinations.

I think the unknown really is the progression of battery technology. If in 5-10 years every EV's range is 1000 miles, charging stations could be very limited in their economic viability if apartments and homes have ubiquitous installations. Commercial is a bit different but still battery technology would likely have similar effects where it would still push charging to be at the home base.

With current battery tech, fast charging wears out the battery faster than slower charging. If you are fast charging every day, your battery won't last very long.

60% of US housing is SFH and another 22% are in townhomes, mobile homes, or apartments of 4 or less units. As EVs grow in popularity a huge portion of those housing units are going to adapt, because charging your car overnight is just so much more convenient then spending 15-30 minutes at a charging station, even if that initially means a ton of extenions cords running from garages to driveways or curbs Yes, there are geographies and regions where people will find it harder or less convenient, but in the US at least its hard to imagine the general trend being anything but at home charging being the rule, with charging stations primarily being available for high use vehicles (delivery trucks, taxis, postal carriers, etc...) and long distance travelers.

There is no point buying an EV if your apartment doesn’t have chargers for its tenant parking spots, or if you are relying on on street parking. That isn’t most of the market in the USA, though. It does make me wonder how EVs are rising in popularity in China, where wild parking of even high end cars is much more common.

There’s a simple solution: Mandate EV charging for residential parking spots.

Many cities are doing that, some are just doing it for new constructions, many people aren’t rich enough to live in brand new constructions. In China, all on street overnight parking is illegal anyways (at least in Beijing, hence why they call it “wild parking”), but laws/mandates don’t matter much anyways.

And soon they will be owned by oil companies. That’s the point. These large oil companies have so much money they just will buy the companies that run the networks. Throw a dart at any station on chargepoint.com and it could be owned by big oil.

Does that matter? My objection to big oil, such as it is, is the carbon emission/fossil fuel stuff. I don't have a problem with the corporate structures inherently.

Unless the artificially keep prices high so as to keep gasoline as a cheaper fuel.

Unless they artificially keep prices high. Full stop. It's not about gasoline, it's about control over energy in any form, concentrated in a small number of hands.

Lot harder to concentrate when solar power is inherently distributed.

They've not managed to do that with gas. I expect that solar will be much the same.

Good luck buying up Tesla.

There’s plenty of other charging station companies they could buy and corner Tesla.

We're not even close to saturated. On the contrary, we're so far from being saturated that I'm having trouble taking this comment seriously.

To take an example, just a couple days ago the Verge published their review of the Mustang Mach-E [0]; the bottom line was that the car is great but the chargers are impossible to find.

[0]: https://www.theverge.com/22265570/mustang-mach-e-review-elec...

I wish they’d focus on making a truck (or maybe an explorer, or even a.. mustang). It’s their core competency, and Tesla already cornered the SUV and sedan market. Also, trucks are gas guzzlers, so replacing one with and EV is comparable to replacing 2-3 sedans or compact SUVs.

This release makes me think they’re too risk adverse to start with flagship models, and don’t really think this car will be read for the mass market.

(Mustangs are their best selling car in California; F-150’s and Explorers are one and two across their whole market.)

Easy to compete with ChargePoint. Most of them are in expensive garages, and charge more on top of the parking fee (and more than gas would cost for the same mileage, to boot). And frequently they’re out of order, or in use, or the guy on the other side steals the cable while you’re charging. And it’s slow, but you’d better be back when charging is complete, or you’ll be charged an extra penalty. - A Dissatisfied Customer

There are regularly same chain gas stations on the same corner because people don't search for a station, they use one that doesn't require an extra left turn. I don't ever see an EV station and live in a large city. I think that map gives a false impression of density.

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