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Comment by acct776 | Hacker News Reader

Those employers are a net-negative to society, let them die.

Whether they're bad for society or not, my point was that normalization of pot is more of a climb than "just a couple more states, then progress!".

A lot of the places have legitimate reasons for it. You drug test sometimes because drug users can and will steal you blind if they are addicted enough. You don't want drug users operating heavy or critical machinery, or in any job with a modicum of danger. You don't want your day care provider with workers who show up high; by the time you realize it to fire them, they may have done damage.

Not every reason people drug test is invalid.

There are plenty of folks who would fail a marijuana drug test who I'd have no problem in childcare. Your concern is like, "We should test to ensure that someone has had zero alcohol. You don't want your day care provider showing up drunk."

Well yeah. We don’t want drunk people taking care of kids either. That’s pretty standard.

I think the point is that marijuana will show up in a drugs days a few days later, even when you're no longer high.

As in, you wouldn't fire someone for showing up sober on Monday morning because they had a glass of wine on Saturday evening.

Okay so lets start making daily breathalyzer tests standard for anyone who works in kids. Once in the morning and once after lunch.

Urine drug tests don't test for active inebriation. They test for metabolite presence, which for cannabis can linger for up to a month depending on a number of factors. That's why drug testing is not the answer to your problem.

The hard drugs that tend to have more destructive effects don't even show up on a urine drug test for much longer than 72 hours. So, while the person who only smokes weed after work in the evening is at risk of being caught by a drug test, the person who gets off on Friday, goes on a cocaine binge, and then tests clean on Tuesday or Wednesday has nothing to worry about. Which would you rather have in your employ? I'd choose the pothead over the cokehead without hesitation.

Yes, there are legitimate reasons to test for the use of particular drugs - and in the case of marijuana, operating heavy plant, or flying aircraft, or driving trains etc, would qualify; anything where alertness and reaction time is crucial.

I'd quibble, though, with your statement: "... because drug users can and will steal you blind if they are addicted enough."

It is important not to lump all drug use together. There is a huge difference between marijuana use and use of heroin, or other opiates, which are extremely physically addictive and which do cause users in withdrawal to turn to crime to rob you blind for the next fix.

Alcohol addiction is also physical, and the need for alcohol by addicts craving a drink creates lots of petty crime.

Marijuana is not physically addictive, and users do not suffer from withdrawal symptoms/effects. Burglary and violent crime are just not fuelled by marijuana use in that way.

> users do not suffer from withdrawal symptoms/effects

I smoke a lot of weed. Withdrawal isn't a big deal, but it is a thing. It's closer to caffeine withdrawal than alcohol/nicotine withdrawal though. Symptoms I've experienced when taking a break are typically irritability and insomnia for about a day or two. And of course cravings over the longer term which often brings me back.

I should have been clearer in that I meant physical withdrawal - where your body needs a substance, previously provided externally by the drug, to function. So someone accustomed to heroin use will suffer jangly nerves (among many other things) when it isn't in their system. See [1].

Similar, if lesser, physical effects happen to those with an alcohol dependency when alcohol is suddenly cut off [2]

These things are physical, not just psychological. I'm an inveterate cannabis user, and have been since the age of 15, with a happy daily habit uniterrupted for years until I went to work in Qatar for just over a year. No cannabis was available, but I had no physical ill effects - was just grumpier and less chilled in general. Similarly, currently locked down and away from my usual habitat, I've not had a spliff for quite a few months. Again, I miss the vibe etc, but I am not in any physical pain.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opioid_withdrawal

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_withdrawal_syndrome

i have never heard of a drug that has side effects listed as 'withdrawl may cause crime' though...

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