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Comment by pjmlp | Hacker News Reader

To add to the other explanations, there are Herr Doktors that think so high of themselves that they put the title everywhere, business cards, emails addresses, name on the letter box, and everywhere else they are supposed to write the name, you even get to write it on personal data online forms.

Coming from a country (Portugal) where having an Engineering degree still has a similar connotation and there are still some that make the point to be called Eng. SoAndSo, specially on smaller towns and villages, it was kind of ironic to find a society where it is taken to the next level.

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Making sure that an academic or honorific title is correctly interpreted in a German data models is a little project in itself. I once had the pleasure to write out the business logic that generates the correct honorific address for printed letters. It was surprising how much time we spend on that part and how often it had to be revised because of some special exception or case no one had thought about. To give you an Idea, every class: clergy, government administration, political, academic, nobility and professional, has their own rules, which can be mixed and combined, but these rules differ in Germany, Austria and Switzerland. It was a quite archaic and exciting problem to solve.

I can imagine how hard it turned out to be, thanks for sharing.

To further your point, here’s the German government’s 173 page guide on how to address people correctly: https://www.protokoll-inland.de/SharedDocs/downloads/Webs/PI...

Besides government officials and foreign signatories, the largest section is indeed about clergy.

Note that this is super formal. In most business you can get by with Dr. and Prof., nothing else.

My favourites:

"Eure Spektabilität" and "Eure Magnifizenz" for the "Dekan" (dean) and "Rektor" (president/chancellor), respectively, of a university. I wish to meet one, just to use that term.

Hah, I used to be active in student politics and managed to use both of these in writing and heard them plenty of times in speeches.

Germans have a cultural fetish for displaying (and being subservient to) authority expressed by titles, signs and such.

"Wenn diese Deutschen einen Bahnhof stürmen wollen, kaufen die sich erst eine Bahnsteigkarte!" - Lenin (probably not really though.)

If you find this a strong feature in Germany, Austrians take it to the next level

Or as my coworker put it: the Japanese follow rules and hierarchy because they have been indoctrinated and they know the will be punished if they don't; the Germans, Austrians as Swiss do it because it makes them horny.

(Disclaimer: we live in Japan and he lived in Switzerland before)

I find the situation even funnier when you consider that France, Germany main partner in the European Union and direct neighbor, views having a PhD outside of research as a waste of time and something which will be held against you. The cultural differences between European countries are fascinating.

Indeed, however I feel when you immerse into local culture, eventually we find out there is a thin common culture across the continent, regarding what everyone was watching while growing up or certain points of view versus other continents.

As a European living in the US, I think Europeans have much more in common than they think. The differences between countries seem big until you're looking at them from a distance. I'd even argue that the UK has more in common with 'the continent' than with the US.

As an European living in Japan, I totally agree with you. And obviously Western countries (including AU and NZ) have much more in common with each other than with Asian/African/whatever countries.

Are you French? I am, I have a PhD and work in a large French tech company.

Having a PhD has never been an issue, usually an advantage, often neutral.

I am French. Most of my friends have PhD. You still get the usual "you must not be very practical" during interviews and your salary is never better that what someone from a good engineering school would get.

If they get such a message, sorry but they are applying to the wrong companies. The ones I know very well (top tech in France, to take the French ones) would not say something like this.

As for the salary - this is normal. You apply to an engineering position so your experience in engineering positions/education counts. A PhD is not a hinder but not a huge booster either. This is not different from other countries, except for Germany and to some extend Poland and Italy.

Please note that France is extremely unique when it comes to engineering schools. Our pride in prépas and then top schools does not count at all abroad. You finished Polytechnique? OK, that's an engineering school in the top 100-400 of international schools.

>If they get such a message, sorry but they are applying to the wrong companies. The ones I know very well (top tech in France, to take the French ones) would not say something like this.

Well, it's common in the US too, from what I've read. Tech companies (in IT at least) don't particularly care for PhDs...

Yes, they do not particularly care about PhDs. It does not mean that a PhD is a problem, though.

I worked in IT for two large US companies (from mid-90's to end-00's) and the first job my PhD was not a particular asset (but nothing wrong with that) and it helped for the second one.

>It does not mean that a PhD is a problem, though.

No, but it is often perceived as a sign that "let's skip this person, they are too researchy, older than a college graduate, and likely to ask for more too".

don‘t come to Austria, over here even BSc is a title worthy for a business card.

Yeah, that is like Engineering in Portugal, but we don't go as far as in German cultures.

Depending on country, the title of Doctor might become part of your legal name - enough that you're going to get issued new IDs and the like

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