I agree, while I think HN is better I also think it's a difference in scale, not a night and day difference.

Your point about people who "know how to post" is very interesting, as on Reddit I've noticed there's a certain style, or phrasing, of comment that tends to get upvoted more, which leads to a lot of comments having similar style and rhetoric in my experience.

>I'd argue upvote systems in general dominate the world of tech discussion to the degree that some of these reddit mechanisms end up driving aspects of the industry.

Oh yeah definitely, at this point there's no social media giant without an upvote system. Would a strictly chronological forum, like the forums of old, be better though? I don't know.