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Comment by dogma1138 | Hacker News Reader

Not sure what it’s being downvoted if you street park a car at -20 it ain’t gonna start if it doesn’t have engine block heating.

If your car was sold in a region that gets that cold it was likely pre-installed if not you had to take care of that.

The block heater heats up the oil which heats up the engine block it’s usually electric that can run off the battery or an external outlet.

If you buy a car which was intended for warm or moderate climates and drive it in Norway or Minnesota during peak winter you won’t be starting it in the morning.

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This isn’t true. Very few vehicles have engine block heaters and it’s really more of a diesel thing because the fuel gels.

My car happily starts at -40, if a tad reluctantly at times.

If your car isn’t old or diesel, it will probably start at any outside temperature.

About the only difference is the engine coolant needs to be rated to expected low temperatures.

Eh? In Northern Europe new petrol cars are sold with block heaters, the recommendation is to plug in the car when if gets to -10-15c.

Not only does it ensures your car can start but it also prevents damage to the engine.

This is how outside parking in Northern Europe during the winter looks like: https://www.bigstockphoto.com/image-78137918/stock-photo-blo...

No such thing in the coldest metropolitan area in the US (Minneapolis/St. Paul, at least there are none which are larger and colder). Avg daily high/low of -5C/-13C in January over the last ten years. City streets are lined with cars, and only very rarely will you see an extension cord pulled to a street parked vehicle.

Diesel at least was much more popular in Europe which would explain the prevalence of block heaters and the popularity of their use in gasoline/petrol engines, but that doesn't mean they are necessary.

Growing up we had a block heater on our large diesel farm truck and on diesel tractors, I have never in my life used a block heater on a non-diesel vehicle having spent the first >25 years living in climates which regularly hit -30C.

These are also quite common in Canada.

Diesel is common in Europe but so is petrol.

Plugs for block heaters are very common in Northern Europe, Finland is turning them into charging spots now https://insideevs.com/news/332283/finland-has-a-genius-charg...

The heater also does plenty of other things including defrosting windows.

It is a good idea, but there are lots of good ideas when it comes to cars. Do you ever start your car when parked on an incline? That can play havoc with oil delivery but we all do it. Park a car in the cold with a not-full gas tank? That isn't recommended either.

Cold-starting engines 30 years ago was a big problem. They had lots of different metals that would flex against each other. Modern engines are built to tighter tolerances and that means metals that expand/contract at more similar rates. And our oils do not thicken as easily thanks to improved chemistry. A cold start really isn't going to destroy your engine. It will still probably outlive the rest of your car.

30yr ago was 1991. Pretty much anything with fuel injection (i.e. basically everything in 1991) will start just fine at low temperatures.

The one OEM who's processes I have knowledge of with was doing their testing down to -40F in the late 1980s (which coincidentally is the temperature at which their electronics system starts throwing codes for misbehaving temperature sensors).

Partially agree, but...

- Some of the manufacturers at times have moved back towards Iron-Block/Aluminum-head designs (rather than all aluminum.) Thankfully yes modern gasket technology and metallurgy has improved but there is still extra wear and tear as a result.

- Depending on the way the ECU is set up, there may be other advantages to pre-warming the block. As an example, my WRX sometimes gets -really- cranky starting in cold temps. But it's not the start I'm worried about.

    - Below ~25F, the fluid in the clutch gets to the point where I can sometimes pull my leg off the clutch and wait at least a half-second before the pedal 'thunks' up. An engine block heater would probably help with that a bit.

    - The way the ECU is programmed, there is a -long- delay from when the car switches from open loop (just working off a MAP or MAF sensor) to closed loop (looking at the O2 sensor). In cold enough weather, If the temp gauge doesn't reach a certain point before I hit the highway, it -never- hits closed loop and my mileage is absolute trash. Not every car is set up like this, but more than you think. It's an emissions thing.

Most of your clutch's working fluid is nowhere near any block heater. It is in your clutch master cylinder right above your clutch pedal. It is essentially inside the cabin with you rather than under the hood with the engine. You might have a fluid reservoir under the hood but, warm or cold, that fluid isn't being used unless you have a leak.

As for running temperatures, the standard trick is to reduce airflow across the radiator. Trucks put on "bras" or you can rig up something made of carboard in front of the radiator. Always cardboard because it is soft enough not to damage anything if it gets loose.

Growing up in central Alberta (with routine -25C daytime temps) we always plugged in our cars, but now almost nobody does. There's no need anymore. Modern cars start fine.

Even my diesel VW Jetta had no problem.

> This is how outside parking in Northern Europe during the winter looks like: https://www.bigstockphoto.com/image-78137918/stock-photo-blo...

Only the fancy ones, most people don’t have parking spots like these.

The building I used to live in Finland had outlets for maybe 20% of the parking spaces. Mostly people wanted the pole if they wanted to run an interior heater so their windows wouldn’t be frozen in the morning.

This is why garages (including heated garages) are super common in Minnesota. It’s not just an extravagance. And, conveniently, garages tend to have outlets in them, very often better than just 120V 15A, too!

It'll start fine if you fill it with 0W or 5W oil and didn't compromise on the battery. Even -30C should be fine.

Some people fill their car with 10W oil or don't buy a battery with adequate CCA, but that's on them.

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