Does anyone else think that Apple made terrible decision hiding scrollbars? | Hacker News Reader

Does anyone else think that Apple made terrible decision hiding scrollbars?

6 pointslucasf12 comments

One of new features in OS X Lion will be automatically hiding scrollbars. I think usability-wise it's terrible decision. Let me explain why... It makes sense in iOS - which operates on mobile devices - where screen estate is precious. But the gain of mere 20px (or so) of screen width on desktop? All that while most desktop screens are wide enough for majority of content. What we loose on the other hand, is important indicator (working from the very first glance) that document has more content than you can see. Indicator that was there since beginning of GUI and working well. It seems to me that OS X devs started blindly copying iOS features, without thinking about reasons why they were there. Maybe I just overlooked something... What do you think?

View on HN

You're absolutely right. You can't always tell whether there's more content below if there's no scrollbar. I don't want to have to scroll just to see if there's more content.

The bar shows up briefly while scrolling. I can't remember the last time I clicked on a scrollbar to scroll... That said, I'm sure some do but without playing with it, we don't know if it appears if you hover the mouse over that area or not. It's one of those you gotta play with it but for me not an issue

Yeah, but user might already be on his way out - not seeing what he was looking for - without making any interaction with website.

The only way I can see it work, is to show scrollbar on every mouse movement. But than I don't see any benefit of hiding it in first place.

However I agree with you that we will see how it works out, when people start using it.

The worst case scenario is probably increased bounce rate on some websites, decreased conversion rate, and some confusion for users.

Too soon for these suppositions.

It's like the "users don't scroll" myth. If a user is reading to the bottom of the page he will flick it up to see if there's more below. And it's the designer's job to make sure that the right content is findable above or below the fold.

I agree with designer's responsibility to maximize "findability" of content - however it's simply impossible to design for every single resolution and size of window. Until now, at least scrollbar was always there, no matter what resolution (if content was bigger), indicating more content. I agree it's to soon to predict effects of that change, and I'm not trying to do that. I'm just trying to understand what would be the benefits/reasoning behind the decision to change standard GUI element that already worked well.

No, it's a great decision. It's less clutter on the screen.

FYI, the scrollbars are always visible on my MBP 2011 using just a trackpad. I love it.

If they did disappear, it's merely a quick two-finger touch of the trackpad to see where I'm at and how much is left.

For the record, it only hides scrollbars when you're using a trackpad. If you use a mouse, the scrollbars stay visible at all times.

As for whether or not it's a good idea, in practical experience it seems to be fine.

1920x1080 spilt vertically = 960 = same size as the common 960 grid layout. With scrollbars and chrome, a 960 grid does not fit.

I highly doubt that would be a factor in that decision. 1920x1080 is native resolution only for iMac 21.5-inch and Mac Book Pro 17-inch(1920 by 1200) so it probably isn't the most widely used resolution among apple users. And most of 960 grid layouts actually use 940px for content (20 pixels are left for margins) - so that would fit with scrollbars anyway... Also, even if you would have two sites using full 960px, you would still have to align windows with pixel perfect precision not to cut anything out.

Sorry for off topic: You can align windows perfectly every time with SizeUp (http://irradiatedsoftware.com/sizeup/).

Disclaimer: I'm just a happy SizeUp user =).

You can try it on the latest Ubuntu - it works in a similar way. I haven't had any issues with it.

Thanks for that info. Will try it as soon as I will get around Ubuntu box.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com