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Comment by prophesi | Hacker News Reader

Because you ended the comment with an insulting fantasy of me.

> Maybe you go through life constantly asserting and believing things that are in no way true....with no experience nor credentials nor having even read any literature to back any of them up...

I would have loved to actually engage in a conversation on how vipassana meditation inevitably, whether it's after 8 hours or 8000 hours, leads to disassociation. Ego death. Seeing reality as it is. But if you refute it by calling the person inexperienced and ignorant, the other party will have no reason or motivation to discuss it further.

I also didn't flag or downvote you, fyi.

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Yeah it seemed weird to me that those got flagged but also in line with a lot of what I read here.

If you have something authoritative to say about meditation, I may read it, but I don’t think you’re off to a good start so far. I’ve been getting the impression that you believe your speculation to be authoritative, which is dishonest and deluded. Sorry if this comes across as harsh, but you’ve yet to say anything that indicates to me I was wrong to say what I said.

It certainly does come across as harsh, and is probably why you were flagged. In a debate, you simply don’t insult their intelligence, especially without evidence disproving their claims. You haven’t said why you’re an alleged expert on this subject, either. And regardless if either one of us are experts, that shouldn’t change a thing. If they’re truly ignorant, that can be quickly shown by counter arguments. HN’s toxicity has risen over the years, but we still strive to keep things civil. What’s magical about this community is that you _do_ come across experts, and through civil discourse you can learn a ton from them.

I actually haven’t insulted your intelligence.

From the posts still visible:

> Shockingly ignorant and dismissive of you.

> I'm not assuming. You've demonstrated your knowledge on the subject. (insinuating I have little knowledge on the subject)

> Maybe you go through life constantly asserting and believing things that are in no way true....with no experience nor credentials nor having even read any literature to back any of them up...

If you don’t find these offensive, you may have thicker skin than most, but it’s still best to leave them out.

I didn’t say nobody would find them offensive.

Then you were rightly flagged.

I can believe that you might believe that, but you’ve also demonstrated a lack of reality based belief, so excuse me if I don’t care what you think.

Seems like we both need to do more vipassana meditation then. I hope schizophrenia doesn’t run in the family.

Edit: oops sorry for actually talking about meditation in this thread

I think it's really weird how you still act like you have any qualification in this arena.

I’m going to go out on a limb and say I’ve probably meditated for a lot longer than you. I highly recommend The Mind Illuminated.

Edit: oops sorry for actually clarifying why I may be an expert on this subject

yeah dude, you are going way out on a limb there. But wait...you've done a whole lot of dissociative practices? So basically you're totally dissociated from reality? (to put things in your own words)

So again...why would I care?

edit: also, just in case anybody takes this charlatan at his word and does decide to read 'the mind illuminated' know that many of the author's followers demonstrate cult-like behavior, as well as disillusionment with his claims after it broke that he had been deceptive to his community about his sexual affairs.

We’re finally getting to where the rub is!

For one, I don’t think disassociating is a _bad_ thing. Psychedelics (and ketamine in particular) can be very therapeutic for their disassociative properties. This also transfers over to meditation.

But people need to be aware of it; meditation isn’t a cure-all and can induce a psychotic breakdown if you’re susceptible to them. I’m thankfully not in that camp, and it will take most people who _are_ susceptible a long time before such a breakdown occurs (like a weeklong vipassana retreat).

I know you don’t care, but it’s fun to share what one has learned.

Edit: also had no idea about the author’s affair. That’s unfortunate. I’ve learned a lot from professors with terrible home lives though.

Yeah, but those professors weren't claiming to be shining examples of ethics or practices that were supposed to lead to ethical behavior.

Anyways, basically your point is that meditation is like drugs in that it gets you high and helps you check out? Wow, how profound, definitely somebody I would give control of my life over to.

Erm, neither was the author of The Mind Illuminated. It’s literally just a textbook for how to meditate for western audiences.

I’m not sure how you got that from my comment. Not even sure what you mean by that last sentence. I’m sorry that even mentioning a substance had you jump to such conclusions.

>Erm, neither was the author of The Mind Illuminated. It’s literally just a textbook for how to meditate for western audiences.

Now you're coming across like you haven't read the very book that you recommend.

>I’m not sure how you got that from my comment. Not even sure what you mean by that last sentence. I’m sorry that even mentioning a substance had you jump to such conclusions.

Reread the comment I replied to.

We're this far into the thread and you've yet to tell me why I'm so wrong, and why you're the guru.

Edit: oops sorry for asking why your opinion matters and mine doesn't

>you've yet to tell me why I'm so wrong

You're wrong about this. Maybe I haven't done it as explicitly as you want, but that's the point. For such a great 'meditator' you pay too much attention to your own thoughts.

> but that's the point

No, you're just an asshole. I don't know what I did to offend you so badly, but I hope whomever you're following for ethical and moral guidance shows you that the eightfold path is more than just right meditation. Please stop calling people ignorant and dismissive, get off your high horse, and pay less attention to your own thoughts. You have yet to say anything of substance. Not that I'm complaining; this exchange has been fun regardless.

I’m actually not.

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