Comment by hn_throwaway_99 | Hacker News Reader

Comment by hn_throwaway_99 | Hacker News Reader

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hn_throwaway_99

To each their own. I was a Java engineer for most of my career since the early 00s, switched to Node a couple years ago (primarily running Apollo GraphQL server in Node), and I find myself so much more productive now. Addressing each of your points:

1. Yes, I think it's true that server-side Node isn't really usable without tight reliance on NPM. That said, I think NPM has improved by leaps and bounds over the past few years and it now makes it quite easy to have a stable and secure set of dependencies. Integrating our build with npm audit (and audit-resolver) and other tools like snyk, using package lock files, and keeping dependencies up-to-date on a regular schedule has worked very well for us.

2. Again, I think the NPM ecosystem has settled down in the past few years and I don't see as much churn. While there has been some issues with large projects (e.g. lodash and moment) going into hibernation, that's been fine for us.

3. I've found all of our uses for multithreading were better served by having an event system publish events that were then handled by serverless functions. The lack of multithreading, and the way Node manages concurrency, has been a godsend. Just check out the recent GitHub report where they were accidentally leaking information from other users into their sessions.

4. Typescript (combined with autogenerating typescript type files from GraphQL schema definitions) has been honestly heaven for us, and the benefits I've seen with the structural-based typing of TS made me realize the huge number of times I had to battle the nominal-based typing of Java and the immense pain that caused.

Thanks to you and the parent comment both for this rundown on the pros and cons, I found it helpful; and also, using a throwaway account to defend nodejs is, if intentional, a fantastically subtle joke.

Meh, check my post history. I created a throwaway account years ago to comment on some somewhat controversial topic back in the day. I just forgot to throw it away.

If you've come from java and you like node, maybe you should spend some time with the alternatives?

A big part of it depends on what your exact requirements are but my experience with node didn't bite me for quite a while.

1/2) my experience is that even the supported packages have had glaring holes where they don't in other languages. Just to give a quick example, I had a project that used node-cache-manager to implement a tiered cache. There was a bug (in the cache library with the most stars) just last year where the cached values in a memory cache were passed by reference as opposed to copied. That meant any mutation on them affected other fetches from the cache! That would never happen in java. This particular bug took weeks to debug in production because values were being randomly mutated. After the fix, it also had different behaviour for when the cache value was new vs when it was retrieved. So two mutation bugs in the same cache codebase see https://github.com/BryanDonovan/node-cache-manager/issues/13....

I'm not blaming the author, he's a really good guy. What i'm saying is this is a wart both in the language and the library ecosystem - it's not unreasonable to expect a sensible caching library.

3) I agree that threads aren't necessarily the way to go. But can we agree that a language that CAN efficiently take advantage of multiple cores would be better? It's not just for your application. It's also for any compiling eg. typescript!

> Just check out the recent GitHub report where they were accidentally leaking information from other users into their sessions.

Concurrency is hard! except in a language where it isn't. In elixir each "thread" (erlang process) would get a different copy of the data so this type of bug doesn't happen.

4.

> Typescript (combined with autogenerating typescript type files from GraphQL schema definitions) has been honestly heaven for us, and the benefits I've seen with the structural-based typing of TS made me realize the huge number of times I had to battle the nominal-based typing of Java and the immense pain that caused.

That is an interesting assessment. I've never really noticed a difference in practice between structural/nominal type systems to the extent that i didn't realise typescript was structural. Normally if you have multiple classes implementing the same structure, you want an interface anyway to make sure they don't diverge i.e. there is a higher purpose for them being the same.

Would you have an example of how this would be a deal breaker?

I think besides this aspect, Kotlin might be up your alley.

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