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Comment by KaiserPro | Hacker News Reader

And yet, the level of inequity in france is nowhere near as much as USA.

Sure there arn't as many mega rich, but then there arn't people hundreds of thousands of people being bankrupted by medical bills either.

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Given that the yellow vest protests have been going on for two and a half years now, I would not hold up France as a model for income equality. The U.S. may be a decade in advance of most countries in this respect, but there's no indication I can find that France has the problem solved with its approach.

> there's no indication I can find that France has the problem solved with its approach

They certainly haven’t. However, the yellow vests movement fizzled out a long time ago. And union-bashing certainly isn’t the way to go if you care about equality, however imperfect they are.

Unions in France also are kinda racist; those shut out of the union system, that is menial workers, don't have a path into the same protections that unionised workers have.

The middle class is also much, much poorer.

So? How's their quality of life?

Depends how you define equitable. Equity isn't just the GINI coefficient, it's also about social mobility. France is pretty spectacular in how the GINI coefficient is fairly low, but social mobility is arguably lower than it in more fiscally 'unequal' societies like the USA.

How is being bankrupted by medical bills relevant to unions?

The weakness of the latter directly contributes to the former.

I thought there are 'out of pocket maximums' set by the government to avoid that? The most that individuals will have to pay out-of-pocket in 2020 is $8,200 and $16,400 for families.

>The most that individuals will have to pay out-of-pocket in 2020 is $8,200 and $16,400 for families.

If you have good insurance, sure. If you're unemployed, one bad illness or injury means instant bankruptcy.

We have ACA now, anyone can get affordable insurance.

Sure, if you have $500 a month laying around no problem.

In many states right now, there are zero cost premiums for those who make within 200-250% of the Federal Poverty Line. Percentage varies between states, or sometimes even by counties. This was part of Biden's stimulus package and should help a lot of people.

In many states. Not in all.

I mentioned it wasn't in all states. But it's still going to affect the premiums of millions. It's a good thing.

Yes, and there are a lot of people trapped in the land of "can't afford the insurance, but also don't qualify for subsidies."

The conundrum is that anyone who can afford to shell out $500+ a month for the most basic plan doesn't need it / probably has a better plan through work. The complexity and cost of the band aid system we have now is a joke the world over.

Tell that to the millions of people who live in states that never expanded Medicaid under the ACA.

No, they can't. When I was poor and working full-time for $15/hr the best I could get was a bare minimum healthcare plan that would have taken more than the free money I had after rent and food for the month -- and this was despite not paying any cost for transportation to work and not owning a car or buying anything besides rent, food and the cheapest MVNO phone plan I could find.

I didn't live in a high CoL area either. Everyone who isn't wealthy or socially connected to get a job that pays above average is priced out of visiting a doctor at all right now.

This is ludicrously far from the truth.

There's a huge set of caveats for the maximum out-of-pocket. The maximum is only for "in network" care. You can very easily end up with out-of-network care for various reasons (including going to an in-network hospital but being treated by a doctor who is out-of-network without being informed of this fact). Maximum out-of-pocket for out-of-network is $40k per person per year on my insurance.

To put that in context, in the UK the average wage is £38k (we have a much wider distribution than on the continent)

The most we'd pay in tax is £8k: https://listentotaxman.com/38000?

that covers all our health insurance as well. There is no copay, there are no "your condition isn't covered anymore". The only issue now is wait times, but thats because we're balls deep in a pandemic.

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