LineageOS 18.1 | Hacker News Reader

LineageOS 18.1

lineageos.org

317 pointsdanielg0134 comments

I am using an unofficial build of LineageOS 14.1 on my 6 year old tablet (Mi PAD 1 'mocha'). After using it for over a month, the ROM is amazingly stable.

The earlier MiUi which the tablet shipped with (7.5.2 Android KitKat) had problems with memory management. For some reason, the 2GB RAM was partitioned into two parts, one for the OS and the other for the running apps. But LineageOS does not have this problem, and it is much quicker than when I bought it!

I use FDroid to install apps and am very satisfied with it. NewPipe is excellent and videos can easily play at 1080p 60fps when earlier, the tablet used to lag on 480p videos.

I have changed the governor to powersave and turned on doze mode. Amazingly, this 6 year old tablet can hold charge for over a week! Even when watching videos at 1080p, the device does not heat up.

More power to the LineageOS team and XDADevelopers!

EDIT: ROM version

I have been reviewing security for unofficial builds, and it's pretty abysmal, same for GPL compliance by the ROM creators. Could you share how you reviewed security for the unofficial ROM?

I'm putting a list of actions to take, but so far it appears it will take days to review ROMS, alternatively download a rom, review what is in it and build from Lineage official source, with Lineage having the better privacy record ....

Some things I would need to check:

- The binary blobs at least match the originals, for example binaries from xiaomi

- Included applications that DO publish their source match the published source / binaries built from said source

- Permissions are sane/correct and don't have too many 777 where it is not needed, which is often set for convenience during development

- That developers are aware and transparent about any telemetry or spyware, which appears to receive a rather cavalier approach from many developers.

This is just one example of developer hostility and incompetence on the xiaomi eu rom community when asked about spyware: https://xiaomi.eu/community/threads/why-does-xiaomi-eu-rom-t...

There are many more to be found at the XDA forum, under custom roms.

There are also some older discussions on HN, xiaomi related, but it does bring up the larger point - how many of the applications and core functionality in custom roms is spyware ? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26306661

I've always been wary of custom Roms that didn't come from somewhat reliable sources like the Lineage team.

The response in that Xiaomi.eu thread has seriously damaged the trust I had in the xiaomi.eu ROM. I've heard good stories about the ROM but if the community, even including a developer respond, like that to an issue like that, I don't think I can trust the website anymore, so I've blacklisted it in my pihole.

I believe custom ROMs published by what comes down to "a guy in a forum thread" are nice for proof-of-concept stuff, but should be considered insecure. Many of these ROMs disable security measures like selinux because these measures make it harder to get Android running correctly on proprietary hardware, removing one of the best security mechanisms the Android sandbox has for the developer's convenience.

I'll never recommend anything other than established brands like Lineage, /e/ or one of the security-focused ROMs to anyone. I mistakenly thought xiaomi.eu was one of the good ones, but it clearly isn't.

Do you have any other sources on popular ROMs to avoid?

I'm glad that that xiaomi eu incident I shared has served as a warning for you and perhaps others, but saddened that it took place and perhaps represents the broad state of android custom ROM development.

I've avoided Android development as much as I could - it's a mess. Right now I am actively reviewing what my options are for some older hardware that I would hate to toss just because of no updates. So far I unfortunately don't have any other positive suggestions, outside of Lineage and the few software/app developers that have a serious approach to development, such as Magisk for root access.

What I have seen on XDA forums was not inspiring, unfortunately. I regret not being able to suggest anyone else, so I suppose it's the unsatisfactory general "do your own research and be extremely wary" recommendation/warning.

XDA forums even have a sticky post for developers about respecting the GPL, yet most custom ROM builders don't share code nor a build manifest nor a report of what different licensed code / binary is included in their build, thinking that linking to the original GPLd code, such as xiaomi's GNU/Linux kernel github page, is enough.

Is this a satisfactory approach to you? Let us leave out the whole "spirit of the thing" debate, Free Software etc -

knowing what code your application includes, crediting it, listing the different licenses and having a manifest of binary blobs is mandatory if not for the reason of keeping track and having a sane development workflow.

So, if the majority of the ROM developers don't do it, that is an avoid them sign to me.

I am just a normal user and wasn't aware that developers didn't review security properly ...

I'm in the same boat with my MiPad 1 Mocha! But the build of LineageOS 14.1, exactly from that forum thread you linked, was giving me some major issues:

* A very bad one is that the tabled would suddenly reboot, from time to time, for no apparent reason (e.g. it might reboot just after opening the application drawer).

* Even worse, using cabled headphones with the audio jack would be dangerous!! because some times a very high pitched beep might start sounding with max volume.

Those two issues are clearly a product of how these alternative ROM builds are done: by some random hobbyist, in their free time, no professional QA at all, and some times changing internal system parameters without really understanding very well what they are doing.

All in all, pretty much an exercise on luck. The high pitched sound was the worst for me, it worsened my tinnitus problem for several hours afterwards...

In the end I tried my luck again with the AospExtended v5.8 [1] and this time things seemed to work out much better. But still, I would never personally recommend an unofficial Android ROM, ever. It feels like sending people to take a stroll through a mine field.

[1]: https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/rom-8-1-0-20200224-unoffi...

Hey, I deleted all the partitions of the device before flashing. Did you try flashing again? Because I did not face any such problems. Sound is a bit quieter, but that's pretty much it.

Yes, I merged the 2 partitions and also installed the binary blobs... I've been using alternative ROMs for my Android devices for some years, so I know the drill. I even tried installing a couple times, but the issues persisted.

I have a similar experience with my Pixel 2 XL.

The Lineage build with power saving mode stays up 2-3 days with active use.

I'm extremely satisfied by it. Kudos to the Lineage team!

It is still possible to get OTA Updates for the Xperia Z2 Tablet (Snapdragon 800) using the AICP Rom too. I'm really glad that I bought this device.. Link: https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/rom-official-aicp-15-0-q1...

> It is still possible to get OTA Updates for the

...for as long as the maintainer continues to support the device. And maintainers are all volunteers.

... of which I am aware of as it is a "custom rom". Which means it is nothing different to what the OP is using.

Hello... I own a mi pad 1 and its running miui with android 3 or 4 I think.

Newpipe works but barely. Same for other stuff. Last year I got China rom I guess but that changed the ui.

Can you point me where to get started? I would love to use this device as its currently just a dump tablet with limited features.

Sure!

Actually MIUI has Android 4.4.2 KitKat.

I repartitioned the ROM partition by following this guide:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7_jrw9C9Pg

And downloaded the ROM files form here:

https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/unofficial-14-1-7-1-2-201...

China ROM is really bad as it can lead to black screen with the tablet becoming unresponsive.

What is the lineageos you use based on? What android version?

Version 7 Nougat

Google Trends is telling me that "peak modding" for android was around 2014, and has steadily been decreasing since. [0]

What happened since then? Are people more satisfied with stock ROMs and see less use for them? FWIW, my own phone is on LineageOS, and love the freedom it provides.

[0] https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=2009-11-01%202...

A lot happened - many more recent phones, especially from big brands like Samsung heavily restrict unlocking of their bootloaders. Google implemented SafetyNet, meaning anyone who wants to use things like Google Pay, Netflix, even Pokemon Go and others now has to jump through hoops. Additionally, things like Netflix are still restricted from HD playback on unlocked devices due to hardware DRM.

Android has also gotten a lot better - many of the modifications people were doing just aren't as necessary anymore, most of the features I used from GravityBox back in the day are now part of the OS. The difference between major versions has dwindled. Back in 2014 we had some of the most hackable devices just starting to age out when new Android releases with major changes were hitting and manufacturers refusing to support them.

Personally I still root and stick to Pixel and OnePlus devices where it's easy to do so. Magisk makes it relatively easy to achieve a safetynet bypass and having things like Advanced Charging Controller around means my device is going to last for years longer, but it's no longer as simple as it once was. With the Android improvements though it's hard for even me to rationalize the need to load custom ROMs until my manufacturer has abandoned my device though.

DRM is a problem everywhere including linux and running ChromiumOS. There is a protected path from the stream to the display that needs to be "certified" in order to support something like 1080p. I guess for payments it's similar. Its really unnecessary and waste of resources imo. But creators probably want some kind of assurances and so we are stuck with it.

You are forgetting that DRM stopped all that piracy that bankrupted the movie industry. That's also why there were so few movies released in the last 15 months or so.

It really debunks that myth that open source software could ever handle the strong encryption that's so desperately needed to protect new movies and TV shows from showing up on The Pirate Bay.

I for one welcome this cogent and secure technological response to a market issue.

You're going to get so many responses missing your sarcasm.

True. :) but adding /s is not as much fun, especially on April 1st.

Pretending to be an idiot is not a prank. Idiots are normal, nobody is a fool for thinking the person saying idiotic things on the internet genuinely is an idiot.

I'd like to take a moment and refute these silly arguments that I made.

> You are forgetting that DRM stopped all that piracy that bankrupted the movie industry. That's also why there were so few movies released in the last 15 months or so.

DRM didn't stop anything, and the movie industry is not bankrupt.

One could easily argue that there might be other reasons why few movies were released since the start of 2019.

> It really debunks that myth that open source software could ever handle the strong encryption that's so desperately needed to protect new movies and TV shows from showing up on The Pirate Bay.

The myth? Do you realize that literally every single web browser is built on an open source foundation? And how is decryption in the browser going to keep a determined person from grabbing the screen output or even grabbing the keys?

Remember, not your keys, not your lock.

> I for one welcome this cogent and secure technological response to a market issue.

Why would a technological response be appropriate for a market issue?

I call nonsense on this one. Anything that's on current streaming services (especially the popular stuff, aka the money makers) can be easily found on p2p networks. DRM has never won a single battle that I know of.

These services are not successful because of exclusivity, but because of convenience, feature richness, legality, speed of access... in other words they are worth the price.

It's important to be aware of this: the media streaming landscape becoming more and more fragmented directly impacts the most important reason why people are paying for these (convenience), which could lead to a harsh reality check for production companies.

>DRM has never won a single battle that I know of.

You need to define 'victory' in a proper manner.

Businesspeople don't really care if some lone hacker in some forsaken internet forum broke their DRM. They don't need to fulfill the perfect technical victory condition. So long as they've limited the use of the devices for nearly all users for the commercial lifespan of the device*, and (most importantly) so long they think they make more money than without, they've won as far as they're concerned.

Their criteria is far more realistic and relevant to the world at large than the technical 'never ever get hacked' criteria. There's a good argument that perfect protection (if it were possible) would actually be counterproductive to the bottom line.

* Just look at how general computing has been getting more and more restricted.

More like ISP StreamingService partnership did this since it is far cheaper for them to streaming from edge boxes at their own CDNs than p2p which hurt the ISPs because they have to pay for peering bandwidth. Also streaming services are just too mature these days and easy to use compared to p2p. There are plenty of free licence movies and tv shows but even those prefer streaming platform over p2p. It has almost nothing to do with DRM.

I don't know what you're talking about. As long as you can videotape a screen in a dark room and get audio out a 3.5mm jack, piracy will continue. The only way to prevent piracy is either:

A) only allow movies to be played in theaters

B) watermark all content, and vigorously track down freeloaders based on the watermarks

You can still find most movies/TV/books/music for free on the open web as long as you use a search engine other than google.

Bankrupting? When has a Hollywood movie not been a massive success in viewership but a massive loss on the balance sheet? I wouldn't trust Hollywood accountants.

Even star wars was a failure.

> payments it's similar

Without the protected path, how do you know that a malicious program doesn't use a low-level API to start a payment from your account without you noticing ?

1- You don't, but it's not a real problem since non-cryptocurrency payments are reversible and trackable, so scammers won't use them. They'll rather exploit analog ways to get money out of you, recent example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrKW58MS12g#t=7m18s

2- You don't, but sandboxing should be enough to isolate untrustworthy apps from OS-level APIs that could do what you're afraid of.

The problem is that people have to run untrustworthy software to begin with.

Android is still horrible until you can control background activity or at least background network traffic. There is no way to shut those off completely. I assume this is an intentional decision by google as it would severely limit the platform for analytics and marketing.

A simple approach without root is using a fake VPN blocker such as Blokada (FOSS) https://blokada.org/

Scary to see all the hits. For complete - requires a lot of work and the custom ROM builders do not appear to be so interested.

I do use a fake VPN blocker, and that's how I found out that you can't do it. You can either block completely, or you have to allow background network. There needs to be a "only allow data while in foreground" but google is a sociopathic company (as are most public companies) and wouldn't do something like this that is user friendly but revenue unfriendly.

As you outline, only a partial blocking is possible when google services and applications are on the phone (today this includes most apps from the g-store).

A "pure" analytics service may be blocked when reaching to a known spyware server. Bundled spyware and telemetry (is that "google core") are unfortunately not blocked.

I still root for fine tuned privacy (through xprivacyLua) and app backups (through titanium backup). These 2 apps provide features that are not available in any other os.

Interesting, looks like there's an Xposed solution that passes safetynet easily these days. Might have to give XPrivacyLua a proper go.

I have used XPrivacyLua for years. It is great but not perfect.

Daniel Micay,author of GrapheneOS (an Android fork), pointed out some shortcomings of XPrivacyLua on reddit[0]:

You do probably want the ability to force apps to see fake data, but this doesn't do that. It's a client-side check inserted into the app that the app can bypass (even unintentionally, by using a different client-side implementation) or disable.

It does not provide any isolation and cannot fundamentally improve privacy / security because it's based on client side checks, which is not a working approach. It relies on apps not accessing the data via other approaches or alternate implementations of the client-side code, which isn't uncommon. Apps can also detect it and simply work around it directly. This will only give you a false sense of privacy / security. Apps will likely use the fake data for their user-facing functionality, making you think that it works, but a tracking SDK bundled with the app can easily bypass this and harvest your data if you allow the permissions via the OS. This is harmful approach...

[0] https://www.reddit.com/r/GrapheneOS/comments/ch5kv8/is_magis...

Why does he say client side only, yes it provides fake data to apps and doesn't isolate, that's not what xprivacy says it does anyway. How is that bad? What are those ways client can easily bypass? It definitely improves privacy for me. Looks like he was promoting graphene os without giving any proper information.

Plus, several countries have announced that their COVID vaccination passports will exist mainly in app form, since paper certificates are supposedly too easy to forge. Since only a tiny minority of techies like us around here run alternative Android images and app developers have come to expect Google Play Services everywhere, it is almost certain that those COVID passport apps will require Play Services (or even Safety Net, which means MicroG wouldn't be a workaround).

A lot of people still use flip/feature phones as well and other people just don't have cell phones. I guess these people are just forbidden to travel.

Google and OEMs gradually kept adding mechanisms that discouraged ROM tampering by locking features, etc.

Many apps nowadays refuse to run on phones that aren't using authentic OEM software. With every new version, the tradeoff kept getting steeper for rooting or customizing Android phones. Also, Android has huge fragmentation with a large diversity of devices one has to cater to if someone wants to release a customized ROM.

Personally, the Pixel line has greatly reduced the need for third party distributions, which I used primarily to get rid of vendor garbage. Pixels are the only phones I will buy now.

Pixels still have junk - but it's only Google's junk. There's value in getting rid of the base image and switching to LineageOS (or another distribution) but the situation isn't so dire as it is with other vendors.

I love that LineageOS is still going strong and it fills a huge gap once official software updates cease. I just no longer view it as a hard requirement.

I have a unique perspective as someone that has maintained unofficial builds for LineageOS, and used both CM and LineageOS as daily drivers. I stick with stock pixel these days for various reasons, mostly security. I think many users of aftermarket firmware were trying to get rid of the awful stock apps (browsers, keyboards, mem hogs) that manufacturers and cell service providers forced onto users. As Android has matured, Google has been enforcing stricter rules for what vendors put on phones. Also newer android versions allow you to uninstall much of the preinstalled apps. That could explain part of the decrease.

My 2 cents, I've abandoned custom ROMs (circa 2015) because many financial apps that I was using were very anxious when it came to my OS and they stopped working. Even multiplayer games stopped running and required me to use a stock version, without root. The majority of games on mobile are masked casinos, a pure microtransaction fest so they behave like actual financial apps.

The decay and death of CyanogenMod.

Lineage never achieved the same level of accessibility. It always felt like you had to dig through a wasteland of forum posts for random "unofficial" builds where the camera wouldn't work or LTE wouldn't work or bluetooth wouldn't work or Snapchat wouldn't work.

Hmm, that has not been my experience with Lineage at all. Over the last couple of years I have flashed several devices with Lineage and it has always worked almost seamlessly. Maybe the difference is that these devices have mostly just been popular Nexus/Pixel with official builds. (Except for my Nexus 7 where I flashed an unofficial build since Lineage no longer official supports the greatest tablet ever made shakes fist angrily)

From the article posted: >>> Build roster >>> Added 18.1 devices >>> Google Nexus 7 2013 (Wi-Fi, Repartitioned)

Sure soujd like official support for 18.1 on the Nexus 7 is available! Commentors below note that the repartitioning process required for these newly supported versions can be tricky, but that doesn't scare me off, and I'll be taking to updating mine this weekend c:

Woah! Back by popular demand! That is awesome!

Stock ROMs have gotten better, modding had gotten less convenient. Safetynet is a huge problem there, especially for fully custom ROMs (there's workarounds which allow you to root an OEM ROM and still pass safetynet most of the time but for a custom ROM you're SOL and they often aren't even trying due to fearing google's wrath). Safetynet especially is really bad: it's not good enough to actually give a meaningful level of protection against malware or modifications, but it is good enough to basically make it not worth the while of running a custom ROM.

For me it was because more devices were coming with unlockable bootloaders and stock roms that didn't suck. Motorola is a good example: Very minimal bloatware and all of their devices come with unlocked bootloaders off-carrier now. This means the most I need to do is install Magisk. No need for a third party rom when stock is nearly as clean.

Yea, I'd say stock ROMs are definitely improving. I used to mod phones they day I got them. Then I got a Pixel 2 and since then I've just left it on stock firmware.

I'm probably going to have to go back to a custom ROM sometime soon, now that Google has stopped supporting it... but it was perfectly fine to use as-is for the past 3 years.

For me it was fintech apps. They all stop working on Android mods.

I just left one of my financial services providers over this. I could use Magisk and get around the check. I wrote them a detailed email highlighting how using LineageOS meant that I got updates for my post-EOL device and it was more secure. The 1st level tech support guy agreed with me and forwarded it to his boss. His boss closed the ticket without a response. I moved my account.

> Google Trends is telling me that "peak modding" for android was around 2014

Netcraft confirms it.

I personally lost the appeal once Android One devices became more available.

Unfortunately, even if LOS supports my device (it does), it's not a viable solution anymore for me as a primary smartphone OS (even though I really appreciate some of its features -- used it for years on previous phones) due to SafetyNet.

- Google Pay will stop working. - My banks' (multiple) primary apps and pushTAN solutions will stop working.

and that's two of the most important things I use my phone for nowadays. (Forced) bank MFA and payments. Also for voluntary MFA with andOTP of course, because I'm not against MFA, just idiotic pushTANs.

Ironically, devices which haven't had security fixes in 1 year (thanks for nothing, Sony) will also pass safetynet, and the mentioned apps' vendors will still deem them "secure".

Android security past device release remains a joke. Solutions like LOS exist to keep devices running well past the pitiful life span OEMs allow for, but they have become unviable.

> Ironically, devices which haven't had security fixes in 1 year (thanks for nothing, Sony) will also pass safetynet, and the mentioned apps' vendors will still deem them "secure".

Yeah, that's what always got me - they'll act like rooting your phone or installing a custom ROM makes it "insecure", but then turn around and act like a phone is secure running an arbitrarily old stock ROM that's little more than a pile of known vulnerabilities. I even hit this with a company I worked for - they could not grasp the idea that my phone with a current patch level could possibly be safe, because I had root on it... while seeing no problem with my having root on my company laptop and all of our servers. Yeesh.

On some phones we can pass the SafetyNet test by using Magisk. Enable Magisk Hide for the apps that use SafetyNet. Sometimes you also need to add the Phone app to Magisk Hide (not sure why) and/or "hide" the Magisk app with the built in toggle.

Obviously it's not something everyone wants to deal with, but both my banking app and Google Pay works on my Asus Zenfone 6.

Fellow Zenfone 6 user here. Are you running LineageOS or another rom? How are you finding it?

How long until Magisk Hide doesn't work anymore though.

I could be a weird outlier here, but smartphones are now cheap enough that I carry 2 (used to have 3 but I dropped one of them and smashed the screen). This means I can physically separate applications, plus run Lineage on one of them with "real" Android on the other. The newest phone I have is some Honor (Huawei) phone that cost £130.

What benefit does this restrictive bank offer over, say, a credit union? Or another big bank without this app requirement?

There are two such methods left in Germany, chipTAN and photoTAN which (can) use seperate, external generator devices which you can buy. If you have multiple banks however, like I do, it's mixn'match. The last method left is smsTAN, which is insecure by default, and it's the first being phased out right now.

The move towards more elaborate TAN setups is due to PSD2 EU regulations; banks usually choose the way their lawyers deem watertight and product management considers acceptable in terms of cost, although especially on the lawyer side, interpretations of current law still differ. Which results in different PIN/TAN flows even between the major players at the moment.

In many countries, all banks are moving towards apps that require Google Play Services and passing Safety Net. (And a diverse ecosystem of "credit unions" is a USA-specific thing.) Banks are phasing out other means of 2FA like code cards or code calculators, and expecting all customers to have an Android or Apple phone.

I’m not sure credit unions’ tech is diverse, anyway. I’ve noticed some of their online banking sites look like different themes of the same software. So it wouldn’t surprise me if the apps are the same, so eventually the base vendor will push SafetyNet or w/e and all credit union apps will then require it.

That's obviously a stupid move by those banks. And if you think so too, you should point it out to them. Your bank is unlikely to read HN (hah!), but they are commercial institutions and some of them might even listen to their customers.

No, this was actually a pretty reasonable and expected move on the part of the banks. They realized that providing code cards or code calculators to customers represented a expense that very few customers in our modern age were taking advantage of, and so they discontinued those programs. I love my LineageOS Android phone and I also own a PinePhone now, but come on, let's be reasonable and admit that we are so tiny a minority of customers that we don’t matter to banks.

Sure, it's an expense, but it's one that provides actual security. Instead of this "it runs on a phone and google says it's secure"-nonsense. Banks know people's phones rarely get updated.

When I started using online banking in what must have been 1997 or so, I accessed the bank using a browser, client side certificate and a passphrase. It seems like ever since then, security has steadily declined in favour of "ease of use". Which rubs me the wrong way, because we really should have increased the ease of use of security instead!

Fortunately my bank app & Revolut works on my Lineage OS phone. Google Pay won't work tho. I use Lineage for MicroG, so I can even install apps from Play store. I wouldn't be able to use LOS without it.

Indeed. It's not even just banking apps - even my TSP's app refuses to run on my Samsung phone now that I have tripped its Knox counter. It's just a lazy and convenient approach to prevent tampering.

Very much OT, but maybe it’s worth a shot... I wasn’t able to do a full backup of my Galaxy (encrypted, stock, unrooted) so installed TWRP. Now I’m stuck in the infamous boot loop and can’t get out. Knox is tripped. I kind of really need to get in to get some files in there. Should have known better but it’s a bit frustrating that it was precisely trying to perform a backup that made this happen. Can’t find stock firmware anywhere and even if I did I’m not sure if it’s possible to flash it without wiping ...

I don’t suppose anything rings a bell?

Sorry to hear that, I've been in the same situation for too many times now. Yeah, recovering your files at that stage is very likely impossible.

You can get your stock firmware easily though, with any of these tools:

Frija (GUI, recommended): https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/tool-frija-samsung-firmwa...

Samloader: https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/tool-samloader-samfirm-fr...

samfirm.js: https://github.com/jesec/samfirm.js

Dang it. Thanks for taking the time to reply!

Wow, Nexus 7 2013 is still supported. For reference, it was a budget tablet with $269 MSRP, introduced eight years ago! I've been running some older LineageOS build on mine, but I think I'm going to do the repartitioning and install the latest and greatest. It is admittedly becoming a bit sluggish with modern apps.

Nexus 7 2013 was dropped by LineageOS in Feb 2019. It was recently picked back up again as a newer version but it requires manually re-partitioning the storage using a lot of command line entry while connected via ADB. It is not for the faint of heart.

I have one and I'm using Lineage OS 17.1, and it's absolutely smooth, working great. Thanks a lot for people behind that, this tablet is perfect for our usage (music, radio, web, and some apps + test device for app development), and no need to buy a new one and produce more electronic waste.

I did the move after the stock rom went to an infinite loop that I could not recover.

I've been holding on to whichever build was based on Android 8

Mostly because it was the last one that allowed a custom kernel with overclocking support. At 2Ghz the Nexus 7 is still absolutely buttery smooth for most uses

Looks like it needs to be repartitioned, which would be rather non-trivial.

If curious, past threads:

Show HN: A Mashup to find LineageOS supported phones that are repairable - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25592066 - Dec 2020 (48 comments)

IodéOS = LineageOS 17.1 and MicroG and adblocker - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25405552 - Dec 2020 (5 comments)

LineageOS with F-Droid and no Google Apps - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25253091 - Nov 2020 (5 comments)

Hello, LineageOS 17.1 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22756346 - April 2020 (106 comments)

LineageOS Android Distribution - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21490849 - Nov 2019 (99 comments)

LineageOS 16.0 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19277910 - March 2019 (107 comments)

Introducing the LineageOS SDK - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16638732 - March 2018 (105 comments)

LineageOS for microG – Access Google services without closed software - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15617615 - Nov 2017 (198 comments)

Update and Build Prep - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13454472 - Jan 2017 (19 comments)

LineageOS: Infrastructure Status and Official Builds - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13305081 - Jan 2017 (11 comments)

LineageOS will be a continuation of what CyanogenMod was - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13254520 - Dec 2016 (114 comments)

Other interesting ones?

> LineageOS has a feature that helps people protect their privacy when calling helpline and hotline numbers by hiding the calls from the logs.

> LineageOS 18.1 introduces a helpline contact list (just look at the 3-dot menu in the dialer to find it). In addition to quickly being able to find and call any of these numbers, we also show names, languages, websites, and categories for many of them.

Both are interesting UX consideration.

>LineageOS has a feature that helps people protect their privacy when calling helpline and hotline numbers by hiding the calls from the logs.

I love that there's a completely real and sincere justification for the feature, people suffering from issues may want/need to hide their help line contacts, but everyone involved has to know 90% of it's use will be sex lines.

The hiding is based on a listing of sensitive phone numbers, which they've collected internationally. So not just allowing willy-nilly number hiding like you suggest.

https://github.com/LineageOS/android_vendor_lineage/blob/lin...

Love these guys work. Turning devices too old and slow into useful devices again.

Seconded. Thanks to these guys I'm still using an 8 year old phone as my daily driver. Galaxy S4. Only thing that went so far is the battery.

Proving once again that it's not the devices that are slow but the stuff running on it

Yeah, it's great. I'm using a Moto G3 from 2015 that continues to get weekly updates (although still on 17.1 at the moment) and I have no complaints. Only app with any issues is Firefox for Mobile - sometimes a single webpage will use up all the RAM and crash repeatedly - so I've changed to the stock browser.

Turning current devices into useful devices as well ;)

Since my first Android (HTC Desire Z) I have always installed Cyanogenmod/LineageOS (or whatever came before) right after getting the device.

Seconding the "turning _current_ devices into useful devices" sentiment too. My Samsung T720 (Tablet S5e) had 15-20GB main storage capacity with the stock ROM's partition scheme, but 50GB with LineageOS. Absolutely ridiculous. I'd never buy a tablet without LineageOS support.

Any recomendations for current spec phones that work with lineage?

People here are saying Oneplus, but I would recommend Pixel 4/5 or Xiaomi Mi A3 with stock Android One to fallback on if you don't like using LineageOS.

Oneplus have become quite end-user hostile lately. They used to be quite good for this stuff but times do change.

If you go the Pixel route, there's also GrapheneOS (formerly Copperhead). It offers a lot more security features, with of course some tradeoffs when you make a phone secure.

https://grapheneos.org/

It seems GrapheneOS recommends Pixel 5 or Pixel 4a 5G for the longest expected support window. [1]

[1]: https://grapheneos.org/faq#recommended-devices

Most Motorola phones have good support for custom ROMs, although you should of course check your specific model against lineage's list or XDA before buying it. In particular, Motorola doesn't do anything to prevent you unlocking the bootloader; you just get an unlock request code from fastboot, plug it in to their website to get an unlock code, and then give that back to the phone over fastboot and your bootloader is unlocked. They also have SD cards and 3.5mm audio jacks on most (all?) models, if you care about that. The only downside that I recall off the top of my head is that their NFC support is really spotty; a few models have it, but most don't.

Yes. In particular, the Motorola budget series devices are one of the best options for an unlocked phone under $100 for Lineage OS.

OnePlus devices have been always recommended on their Reddit, but personally I've been using a Xiaomi Mi 8 for nearly 2 years with no issues.

Definitely Fairphone: https://www.fairphone.com/en

I installed Lineage 17.1 on a Fairphone 2 yesterday. If only I had waited one more day...

I can +1 the recommendation though. Lineage runs much better than the original OS and breathes life into what would be e-waste.

I'd be a Fairphone customer right now if they shipped to the US.

I just settled on a pixel 3 xl. It has still one of the best camera quality available. Got it on ebay for 135€. OS Lineageos microg ROM. But kept stock camera app.

I was not happy with the selfie quality on the pixel 3a xl although I would have liked the audio jack.

You obviously didn't follow the OnePlus' motto (:

I was hoping to port it to the LG Velvet, especially since LG is debating leaving the cell phone space

Unfortunately they geolock unlocking their devices. European models can be unlocked, Australian ones? Nope!

Anything from OnePlus, they're consistently friendly with the custom rom scene.

They are -- but now with caveats: https://www.reddit.com/r/LineageOS/comments/cv5mhw/oneplus_6...

For some reason I can't find the 7T in their list for supported devices.

How well do Lineage or other custom ROMs work with devices that are not explicitly supported? I've got a Samsung A50 that has the absolute worst UI, even though I loved the UI on my Samsung Note 3. Rather than ditch the perfectly fine hardware, I would like to install a custom ROM on it. However the A50 is not on the list of supported devices.

Usually they list other supported ROMs on XDA Forum, but a quick check there indicates to me that there are no AOSP ROMs for A50. It is likely due to it using Exynos chip which requires use of proprietary drivers.

That still leaves the option of using a GSI of whichever distribution.

https://github.com/phhusson/treble_experimentations/wiki/Sam...

I've been using LineageOS since the good ol' CyanogenMod days and I am very grateful for how much work the developers put into it day in and day out.

Thanks to them, I managed to get rid of Google Apps in my day-to-day life almost[0] entirely and drastically improve privacy for me: Instead of Google Play Services I use MicroG[1] and instead of Play Store, I use Aurora Store[2] and F-Droid. For syncing files there is Syncthing[3] and for backups there is Seedvault[4]. To isolate apps I don't trust I use NetGuard[8] and Shelter[9] and practically no internet-facing app has access to my internal "SD card" on which my photos and documents reside. As a bonus, getting rid of GApps and using LineageOS has increased my phones' battery life and their overall lifetime tremendously. (I've only owned three smartphones in my entire life, the original T-Mobile G1, the HTC One M8 and the BQ Aquaris Pro.) I couldn't be happier.

That being said, I've closely been following GrapheneOS[5] because I find its additional security guarantees very attractive. In fact, just a few hours ago my new Pixel 5 arrived and I'm looking forward to giving it a try. Though I already know I will miss MicroG… Maybe I'll end up building my own custom Android ROM, using Hashbang or RattlesnakeOS[6, 7]?

Overall, I don't really understand people who criticize Android for not being open while loudly claiming a "pure" Linux phone would be so much better. (There was yet another discussion here on HN just a few days ago.) Yes, Android is a not your typical open-source project and clearly in the hands of Google. Yes, most phone and chip manufacturers still haven't open-sourced their hardware binary blobs. We definitely have to fight these fights. But with a Linux phone I'd probably be struggling with window-manager-related bugs in the worst possible moments (say, an emergency call) and risk all my data getting stolen whenever I install a new app.

As much as I like Linux – I dabbled with it the first time almost two decades ago and have been using it as a daily driver for more than a decade – but its stability and security guarantees are orders of magnitude worse than Android's.

I secretly hope that Fuchsia will find its way to the desktop at some point and be able to replace my Linux system.

[0]: I still use Google Maps every now and then

[1]: https://microg.org . See https://lineage.microg.org/ for LineageOS images that come with MicroG pre-installed.

[2]: https://auroraoss.com/

[3]: https://syncthing.net

[4]: https://github.com/seedvault-app/seedvault

[5]: http://grapheneos.org/

[6]: https://github.com/hashbang/aosp-build

[7]: https://github.com/dan-v/rattlesnakeos-stack/

[8]: https://netguard.me/

[9]: https://f-droid.org/en/packages/net.typeblog.shelter/

I mean, don't you risk all your data when you install an app on your computer? Certainly, but it's not the reason to lock down the computer experience for everyone.

I appreciate the 'apps as containers' by default. But it sometimes makes using my phone unbearable. E.g. why can't I see my own apps' settings or data (in /data/data) without rooting my phone? Or why is my only default backup option is a blackbox backup in google drive? (yes there is seedvault in Lineage, but this already restricts you to certain phones). Why can't I use symlinks (or at least bind mounts) so I can syncthing a single directory instead of a bunch of scattered dirs like Camera/DCIM; Downloads; Pictures; Android/data/app.name/, etc?

That said I agree that Linux on desktop could use better and friendlier app containers as well. But I feel like the security/malleability balance is much better on Linux, at least for a technical user.

> But with a Linux phone I'd probably be struggling with window-manager-related bugs in the worst possible moments (say, an emergency call)

Can confirm. This is a very real possibility.

> and risk all my data getting stolen whenever I install a new app.

Where do you plan to get your apps from? If you stick to the repos, this isn't an issue.

CalyxOS might be worth a look!

It's available one for Pixels and the Mi A2 and offers seamless updates, microG and a closed bootloader!

https://calyxos.org/

My project DivestOS supports bootloader locking, verified boot, and OTA updates for many more legacy devices.

https://divestos.org

I am under the impression that even using something like this will leave a person open to vulnerabilities. Is that the case? In other words, some parts of the system (firmware etc) cannot be upgraded.

Using a custom rom usually puts you in an equal or better position compared to stock. If the vendor releases a new version with updated firmware blobs, then lineage can just update to use those blobs, but for the parts that lineage can patch (which is most of the OS, just not some low-level drivers and such) it's usually far more up to date than what the manufacturer ships, and will only become more so as the manufacturer drops support after a few months. Exceptions exist, but they're rare.

You know, when Google said Android 11 and up would require A/B firmware, I ditched my beloved OnePlus One, and bought a OnePlus 6 instead.

Now I see that the One is getting Android 11, but there's no sign of a build for the 6. It's probably coming, but I find it ironic that the phone that "wouldn't be supported" has a zero-day build, but the phone that _is_ supported doesn't have one (yet).

"One" is a matter of pride for the Lineage, as it was one of the phones that was originally shipped with Cyanogen (MOD?). So there is a community that continues to support it. (And I also think it is also a "f... you" statement to all of these who said "the hardware is too old to support newer versions of Android")

This made me think about the Huawei devices that ship without Google Play Services. But, looking at the list of supported devices, I could not see any new Huawei phones. I wonder what the reason for this lack of support could be... Is it because of locked bootloaders?

Yup it's precisely because Huawei stopped providing bootloader unlock. Before that, Huawei was on a good track to be appreciated by developers. They had developers program (giving away devices), great GSI support (which means easier to make device specific ROM as well), Xiaomi's bang-per-buck. There's still a bit of development around devices of that era, but now it's pretty much dead, even though there are some ways to unlock some not-too-new devices through DC Unlocker for instance.

Older Huawei were pretty normal and you could request unlock code, etc. I think they started to get more secretive/closed as every random fact about their implementations could be made news worthy by adding a suggestion of incompetence, pirating or snooping purpose.

I bought a Poco F3 because it is impossible to find any other decent brand with similar specs without paying twice as much.

The first thing I'll do as soon as there's a LineageOS ROM available is installing it and getting rid of all the crap the phone comes with.

Thank you so much to everybody who works on LineageOS! You are so awesome! I LOVE it!

Managed to, somehow, install 14.1 on my Galaxy S5 while ago. Still stable and is great. Have not had the nerves to upgrade, as it not as simple as pushing a botton, but for now it is awesome.

Maybe they are still building but I don't see a download for the Pixel 2 (walleye) for 18.1 - just nightly 17.1

Still building: https://www.lineageoslog.com/18.1/walleye

Still using LOS 16 on my OnePlus 3. I really should take the time to update to the latest version.

It is interesting that oneplus one and oneplus 3 are getting 18.1 while oneplus 2 is not

This is all volunteer based, so if a device isn't supported, it's because no one stepped up to maintain it

The OnePlus 2 was pretty unpopular because it didn't have an NFC chip, so there's probably no one who owns one who is willing to maintain it.

The OnePlus 2 was a bad phone overall. It didn't sell as well as the OnePlus 1, had the infamous Snapdragon 810 and the modding community was never that strong. All this ends up affecting long term support.

I wish I could donate a phone to a developer in order to get them to support it. I had bad luck with unofficial roms.

Are you sure you can't? I'm pretty sure I've seen devs literally saying that they'd support a device if people wanted to donate one.

Can’t wait to check it out.

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