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Comment by Karsteski | Hacker News Reader

How so? I don't find it violating in any way that someone knows that I'm using a messenging app due to my phone number. They aren't exactly private in the first place.

It would be the same if there were usernames, although those would be far harder to assign to a person. Thankfully, Signal is working on that feature and hopefully it's released soon. I'd like to one day not have any phone number at all. It's a system that feels very much antiquated...

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https://app.wire.com already has that feature and it is based on signal protocol.

Has it been audited by external, independent security researchers?

Yes, it's open source and anyone can look at the source code instead of appealing to authority.

That's not what I asked. Generally laypeople are not going to be good judges of whether or not an encryption protocol is sufficiently secure.

Has it been audited by security researchers?

You're assuming it takes considerable skill to fuzz an algorithm or look for back doors and easter eggs? To answer your question, I don't know if Wire's been audited by paid researchers. I personally prefer a customer-exposed product whose each commit you can look up rather than the remote promise of security in a locked and hidden program.

Why can't it be both?

Bitwarden is open-source (both the server and clients) AND has been independently audited for a security review.

> You're assuming it takes considerable skill to fuzz an algorithm or look for back doors and easter eggs?

This is usually a good assumption.

It is not impossible to create code which looks like it does one thing while simultaneously doing ya-mother.

http://underhanded-c.org/

"look" is a weak word. Anyone with eyes can look.

https://wire.com/en/security/#audits

Yes, with published reports, but it looks like they haven't published new ones in a few years.

Wire uses MLS [1], it has nothing to do with the Signal protocol.

[1]: https://messaginglayersecurity.rocks/

afaik Wire works on MLS like many others do - but according to Wikipedia Wire uses the Signal Protocol. Your "source" does not back up your claim

I just read the Wikipedia page and it says, emphasis mine:

> Wire's instant messages are encrypted with Proteus, a protocol that Wire Swiss developed based on the Signal Protocol.

That doesn't sound like "Wire uses the Signal Protocol" to me.

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